"ORALE" to the Pittsburgh Police for not following Arizona's racial profiling of hispanics. (Houston: appointed, insurance)

[Mr. Mon]

Originally Posted by JoshM25

Except the Arizona law does NOT permit racial profiling. Read the law. Police cannot not stop someone solely baed on their immigration status. It's mind numbing how people still don't know the law.

So then, how do you enforce it? "Papers please?"

[Heit]

Originally Posted by hornet67

Thanks for posting; you are correct. Too many other knee jerk reactors scream racial profiling without actually bothering to learn the details.

Well said and CORRECT. There are WAY TOO many folks running around today just itching to throw out the "R-Word".

[JoshM25]

Originally Posted by Mr. Mon

So then, how do you enforce it? "Papers please?"

That's the problem. The law is actually very soft -- it makes it almost impossible to enforce. They would enforce it in the event that someone is stopped for another offense -- not simply because they look hispanic driving by or are walking down the street. They would have to be stopped for another crime or infraction, much like cops around here, I believe, cannot stop someone simply because it appears they aren't buckled in.

If they ask everyone for papers -- great. If they ask every other person for papers -- great. We have laws against illegal immigration from every nation, but why would they ask someone from Russia if they are here legally when they border the country of Mexico? It's simple common sense and geography. You can claim profiling all day but it's just a matter of fact.

[BrianTH]

Whether or not the law encourages racial profiling isn't a cut-and-dried issue. You can be arrested and detained by the Arizona police if they have a "reasonable suspicion" you are an unlawful alien and you don't have proof of lawful status on you (and note that many out-of-state driver's licenses would not count as proof under Arizona's law). The law also instructs that they aren't supposed to use race, color, or national origin in enforcing these provisions, but the standard in question is so vague that it will be very easy for the police to come up with some other basis for their alleged suspicion.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by JoshM25

They would have to be stopped for another crime or infraction

Correct, but the standards for a mere stop are very low, and you can be stopped under Arizona law for trivial non-criminal violations like jaywalking, failing to have a dog on a leash, riding a bicycle on the sidewalk, and so on.

We have laws against illegal immigration from every nation, but why would they ask someone from Russia if they are here legally when they border the country of Mexico? It's simple common sense and geography. You can claim profiling all day but it's just a matter of fact.

Ironically, the law actually forbids using national origin as well. I think you are correct, though, that they would likely do it anyway, then come up with some other rationalization if pressed.

[Aran]

Originally Posted by JoshM25

If they ask everyone for papers -- great.

I think you've confused "great" for "Horrendous, unconstitutional, and fascist."

[JoshM25]

Originally Posted by Aran

I think you've confused "great" for "Horrendous, unconstitutional, and fascist."

I was being sarcastic and a bit facetious. I was just illustrating how it's impossible to avoid "racial profiling" unless they ask everyone for their documents.

How else are they supposed to enforce the law? We're asked for ID all the time -- grocery store, voting, library, etc.

[Mr. Mon]

Originally Posted by Aran

I think you've confused "great" for "Horrendous, unconstitutional, and fascist."

And I think we're done here.
The police cannot ask you for squat to prove citizenship. Plus, a drivers license or ID alone is not proof of citizenship. I don't see how anyone can be pro-illegal immigration, but these type of laws are unenforceable without racial profiling, and/or egregiously violating someone's Constitutional rights.

[Aran]

The government doesn't run the grocery store, voting is limited to one vote per person and ID is one way to ensure that nobody double-dips, the library is a place where an individual voluntarily signs a contract for services and needs to be held accountable...

Yeah, I'm not sure you get this whole thing.

[BrianTH]

If you really want to enforce immigration laws in relation to people coming here for economic reasons, you have to systematically target employers, not try to catch unlawful aliens when they are out riding their bikes or walking their dogs.