What's Pittsburgh Really Like? (Carnegie, Portland: middle-class, real estate, homes)

[docwatson]

Having been away from the east for over a decade, I am curious to hear what Pittsburgh is really like.

My wife and I are in the middle of the country and planning to relocate in a year or two to the coast. We're planning on the west coast - perhaps NW. I've always enjoyed the west coast culture, love the greenery and access to the ocean, and my wife is Asian-American so having cultural diversity is good for us.

After growing up in the south, I went to college in NY state and lived briefly in DC. I had flirted with settling in the east - but spent a summer in SF and decided the west coast was for me. I like the western laid back culture, the more middle-class liberal attitudes, etc. We are attracted to Portland, OR, although I do find it less diverse than is ideal.

Recently, though, I've read that Pittsburgh is considered to have many of the attributes I am looking for - a not-too-big city with beautiful historic neighborhoods, easy access to outdoor recreation (paddling, cycling); reasonable weather (i.e. it's not Chicago); reasonably priced historic housing stock; and a concentration of younger creative types and professionals interested in sustainable living, bicycle commuting, urban farming, etc. I guess in the east you might call this "granola" except I've never had dread locks, I do take showers, am not super-liberal and really don't like granola!

I'm wondering if my impression is a reasonable description of Pittsburgh? I have been hiking in western PA and find it quite beautiful, so thought it may be an option.

Also, are the public schools good and are there choices such as charter schools for people who prefer education with an emphasis on thinking for oneself?

Thanks for your input!

[BrianTH]

So in terms of the built and natural environments, I think your description is quite accurate. My brother lives in Portland, and we often comment how we both ended up in similar cities (we are originally from Detroit).

The culture is a bit more of a complicated story. There is indeed the sort of young, creative, well-educated, green/outdoorsy population you are talking about, but there is also an older component to the population that dates back to the steel era. That older component is hard to describe simply, but it is more blue-collar, more socially conservative, more ethnic, still outdoorsy but in a more speedboats and hunting than granola way, and so on.

Depending on where you live and work, you'll encounter more or less of either component to the population. So if you get seriously interested in Pittsburgh we can help guide you to specific areas.

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by docwatson

I am looking for - a not-too-big city with beautiful historic neighborhoods, reasonably priced historic housing stock;

We absolutely have this, in the eyes of many this city is the perfect size without being too crowded. Also we have all of the beautiful, historic housing you could ask for and it's pretty much everywhere.

Originally Posted by docwatson

reasonable weather

We don't have this unless you're willing to really lower your expectations of what you consider "reasonable".

Originally Posted by docwatson

a concentration of younger creative types and professionals interested in sustainable living, bicycle commuting, urban farming, etc.

We certainly have a fair share of these folks, but they're concentrated to pretty much one or two areas and they're a bit of the minority here. Though the number of these types of people are increasing, they're still very much outnumbered by Yinzers (Pittsburgh's version of the Midwest rube). However, if you look hard enough for that crowd you'll definitely find it. Also, the public school system here is not so good. All in all though, I think you'll pretty much find what you're looking for here.

[BrianTH]

I think the weather here is reasonable. As many will gleefully note, Pittsburgh has a lower percentage of possible sunshine than most large U.S. cities (down in the same range with Portland and Seattle). But we also don't get many extremes--there tend not to be many superhot days in summer, not many supercold days in winter, we don't have a superdry season, we don't have a tropical storm season, and so on. Because of the short days and cloudiness in the winter, I'd be careful if you have SAD. Personally, my biggest complaint about the winters is that often snow doesn't stay around for long (it gets too warm too often). But other than that, it is a fairly mild version of a four-season climate.

As for schools, the City district is decent for a large central city, and they have been aggressive lately about making changes for the better, and have gotten a lot of outside funding (public and private) to help. But PA also has a robust charter school law, and there are also some very good suburban districts (and there are some reasonably priced sections in some of the better suburban districts).

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

my biggest complaint about the winters is that often snow doesn't stay around for long (it gets too warm too often)

True, but you must not forget when it does melt many times it refreezes causing everything to be covered in ice. Also, it seems that ice storms have been very prevalent over the past few years. Is there alot of that going on in alot of places in the US? I don't hear too much about it anywhere else.

[bradjl2009]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

As for schools, the City district is decent for a large central city, and they have been aggressive lately about making changes for the better, and have gotten a lot of outside funding (public and private) to help. .

This may be true but unless I lived in a few neighborhoods, I would in general avoid the city schools especially for high school. I went to a Catholic grade school got a vastly superior education than I would have gotten in a city school. The school I would have had to go to would have been Peabody so my parents sent me to City High since they weren't too keen on wanting to spend $15,000 for my brother and I to go to a Catholic High school. I've always found the difference in tuition between catholic grade and high schools pretty ridiculous.

[Craziaskowboi]

Beautiful historic neighborhoods - There are plenty of those, although the price of the homes in those neighborhoods is largely dependent upon their condition. For example, homes in the central North Side are "affordable" because they're run-down, but over in the Mexican War Streets area, they're super-expensive.

Easy access to outdoor recreation - Pittsburgh has improved dramatically with this over the last 20 years. The only improvement I can think of off the top of my head would be to build more boat-launching areas in the city proper. Otherwise, there are opportunities for hiking, jogging, rowing, and even stair-climbing. (The city has lots of long staircases.)

Reasonable weather - Pittsburgh has a four-season climate, and the temperatures are not as prone to extremes as they are in Chicago, but it is a very cloudy place from about mid-November to mid-April.

Reasonably-priced historic housing stock - Pittsburgh has some of the most affordable housing prices of any major U.S. city. Be forewarned, though, because again, part of it has to do with the number of fixer-uppers in the city. Most of the newly-built housing in the city proper can get a bit pricey.


A concentration of younger creative types and professionals - Still a minority in Pittsburgh, but rapidly gaining clout. Their presence has reached a critical mass within the last 10 years, and I think that's part of why the city seems to be moving forward more rapidly than it did back in the 1990's.

ASIDE: Ethnic diversity is relatively lacking in the Pittsburgh area, although that is beginning to change, and people are generally tolerant as long as somebody's not cramming their ethnicity down everybody's throats.

[jay5835]

I've lived in NY, LA (Santa Monica), Portland, Seattle, DC, and Pittsburgh. After spending most of my life in DC, I wanted to leave. And rather than going somewhere new new, I decided I'd return to one of the places I knew I'd liked.

NY and LA were too expensive, even before the Great Big American Real Estate Grab of the 2000s. I didn't like Seattle when I lived there, so my choice was between Pittsburgh and Portland. Pittsburgh is so much closer than Portland to DC in case it turned out to be a mistake, so here is where I went, eleven years ago.

The weather is similar here to that in the NW in that it's gray here most of the winter. I believe Pittsburgh has the second greatest number of gray days per year in the US, Seattle coming first. But it's a lot colder here in the winter than in the NW. It doesn't usually snow as much as it did in 2010, but it does snow, which I only remember happening once in the NW in the three years I lived there (not saying it didn't happen, there, just that it was only memorable once).

Pittsburgh is not near the water. You're a good six hours from "down the shore" in New Jersey. While I'm glad I chose Pittsburgh, in terms of weather and closeness to the coast, Portland is by far your better deal. Another weather note: it stays cold here (and probably in the rest of the northeast) an extra month here, compared to DC. Where spring seemed to begin in March in DC, it waits until April to reveal itself in Pgh.

I don't know that you'll find Pittsburgh any more diverse, trending Asian, than Portland. When I lived in the NW (30 years ago), I thought there were more Asians (particularly in Seattle, FWIW) than I now see in Pittsburgh, except perhaps in Squirrel Hill, which is the next neighborhood east of Carnegie-Mellon U.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

Also, it seems that ice storms have been very prevalent over the past few years. Is there alot of that going on in alot of places in the US? I don't hear too much about it anywhere else.

We used to get plenty of ice storms in the Detroit area, where I grew up.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by bradjl2009

This may be true but unless I lived in a few neighborhoods, I would in general avoid the city schools especially for high school.

CAPA, of course, is an excellent school, and it will be interesting to see how the new international and science/tech schools do.