Chipotle To Market Square (Pittsburgh, Mars: rent, living, restaurant)

[BrianTH]

Ideally there would be more unique stuff at the lower end of the scale, but the chains are tough to beat in that market. In fact supposedly they are willing to subsidize outlets in higher profile urban locations because of the marketing value for the chain (I haven't seen much official confirmation of that, I should note, but I have heard it suggested many times). And of course visitors also like to patronize chains, particularly on the lower end.

Anyway, fortunately once you include not just the Square but also the surrounding blocks, you are talking about a lot of retail space. So you can have a McDonalds, Dunkin Donuts, Starbucks, Chipotle, and so on somewhere near Market Square, and still have the prime spots on the Square dominated by more interesting places. And hopefully that more or less rules out the Buca di Beppo's of the world.

[pman]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Ideally there would be more unique stuff at the lower end of the scale, but the chains are tough to beat in that market. In fact supposedly they are willing to subsidize outlets in higher profile urban locations because of the marketing value for the chain (I haven't seen much official confirmation of that, I should note, but I have heard it suggested many times). And of course visitors also like to patronize chains, particularly on the lower end.

there's already two in that market on market sq that aren't chains (and primanti's is what visitors want more than the chains that are back home...love it or hate it, you have to try it). can't say as all visitors like to visit chains when they visit though certainly some do...

also forgot about Dnd, would love to see that move as well...I'd be a whole lot more excited if this were replacing DnD and dnd were replacing an empty storefront somewhere else

[Blackbeauty212]

I think the Square could also use a:

Cosi
Corner Bakery
Panera Bread

If not in the Square somewhere between WoodSt and Penn Av

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by pman

there's already two in that market on market sq that aren't chains (and primanti's is what visitors want more than the chains that are back home...love it or hate it, you have to try it). can't say as all visitors like to visit chains when they visit though certainly some do...

I definitely agree the Square itself should mostly not be chains (with the possible exception of local chains like Primanti's, Pamela's, and so forth). And when you add up all the spaces that would make available (in addition to the current vacancies), it is quite a few.

Visitors tend to like places like McDs, Starbucks, DnDs, Chipotle, and so on when they just want something quick and simple, and don't want to have to think about where to go and what to get. So, they go to a chain where they already know what's on the menu and what it will be like. But again, I don't think you need such places on the Square itself as long as they are reasonably close.

What I don't see much, if any, future role for is chain sit-down places, like the aforementioned Buca di Beppo's. I'm not sure if that applies to a Moe's or not, not being overly familiar with the place, but it might.

also forgot about Dnd, would love to see that move as well...I'd be a whole lot more excited if this were replacing DnD and dnd were replacing an empty storefront somewhere else

For the moment I'm just happy to see solid tenants moving into Market Square Place . . . the more successful that development, the more such developments Downtown will get. But yeah, as noted above I would also like to see places like DnDs move off the Square itself eventually. I think if this NOLA place does reasonably well, that should start happening.

[neurodistortion]

I think it will work but they need some more sit-down dining establishments rather than fast casual/fast food establishments in that area. Also, it would be nice if they expanded the retail and dining offerings in the PPG Place retail concourse/food court and kept it and the Highmark retail areas open later into the evening (until 9pm Monday-Saturday) for those visitors wanting to shop or a quick meal/snack. I think DnD could find a new home in either of those buildings.

[Blackbeauty212]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I definitely agree the Square itself should mostly not be chains (with the possible exception of local chains like Primanti's, Pamela's, and so forth). And when you add up all the spaces that would make available (in addition to the current vacancies), it is quite a few.

Visitors tend to like places like McDs, Starbucks, DnDs, Chipotle, and so on when they just want something quick and simple, and don't want to have to think about where to go and what to get. So, they go to a chain where they already know what's on the menu and what it will be like. But again, I don't think you need such places on the Square itself as long as they are reasonably close.

What I don't see much, if any, future role for is chain sit-down places, like the aforementioned Buca di Beppo's. I'm not sure if that applies to a Moe's or not, not being overly familiar with the place, but it might.



For the moment I'm just happy to see solid tenants moving into Market Square Place . . . the more successful that development, the more such developments Downtown will get. But yeah, as noted above I would also like to see places like DnDs move off the Square itself eventually. I think if this NOLA place does reasonably well, that should start happening.

Are we just talking about on the Square itself or all of Forbes leading up to the Square from Wood St? because there's alot to work with if you're including the Forbes lead up.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

Are we just talking about on the Square itself or all of Forbes leading up to the Square from Wood St? because there's alot to work with if you're including the Forbes lead up.

So I'm mentally dividing it into two zones. You have the spaces with frontage on the Square itself, and then spaces in the approaching streets--in fact eventually I suspect everything in the area defined by Fourth, Stanwix, Liberty, Fifth, and Wood will be considered part of the greater Market Square area.

And you are right--in that greater area there is a lot of space to work with, including plenty of room for both more upscale/unique places and also some popular chains.

[Blackbeauty212]

Do we know if IGA is still pushing to get into the old MCD's on Forbes and Wood?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

Do we know if IGA is still pushing to get into the old MCD's on Forbes and Wood?

I haven't heard anything since August, when they were reportedly in lease negotiations.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

I think the Square could also use a:

Cosi
Corner Bakery
Panera Bread

If not in the Square somewhere between WoodSt and Penn Av

I couldn't disagree more. these are the types of things not needed on the square. if you were to change your list to brian's, that'd be fine.
panera=primanti's (which seems like it outperforms everyone else currently on the square as it is)
corner=pamela's
cosi=crazy mocha (already there)
in addition to those, I'd love to see a downtown penn mac with takeout, a downtown la prima, a downtown il pizzaiolo, a "gastropub" and something I can't think of.

Originally Posted by neurodistortion

I think DnD could find a new home in either of those buildings.

excellent suggestion.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Visitors tend to like places like McDs, Starbucks, DnDs, Chipotle, and so on when they just want something quick and simple, and don't want to have to think about where to go and what to get. So, they go to a chain where they already know what's on the menu and what it will be like. But again, I don't think you need such places on the Square itself as long as they are reasonably close.

some visitors are like that, some are not (probably not the ones at the fairmont). it's not that all those shouldn't exist, just not ON the square. first two things I had in Pittsburgh? primanti's, then a fish sandwich. judging by the enormous lines at pamela's strip district location, I'm guessing a location targeting visitors downtown wouldn't be a bad thing.


What I don't see much, if any, future role for is chain sit-down places, like the aforementioned Buca di Beppo's. I'm not sure if that applies to a Moe's or not, not being overly familiar with the place, but it might.