Bike trail to DC: Final section officially official (Millvale: tax, costs)

[DarkWolf]

eh , why are you guys all ganging up on me like a lynch mob.....sheesh i gave my opinion which many fellow Rail Fanners and Transit bloggers agree with me on...Public $$$ should not be used for Bike Trails. I have no problem with Bike lanes , I think the Govt should invest more in them and create city wide networks in every city. But i really don't see the point in spend public $$ for a long Bike Trail. It should be a private investment. Anyway how much did the govt pour into this?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by greg42

There's already a routing for current Pittsburgh to DC passenger rail, so in this case I can't see what is lost even from a rail fan perspective by putting a trail on this old alignment. I don't believe it would have been useful in a high-speed rail alignment really. Is that the argument? I don't know. I'm all for rail transport (passenger and freight), but the argument against this trail is not making any sense to me.

There is an unfortunate tendency among some fans of one sort of transporation technology to attack other forms of transportation technology. This is generally foolish, because different forms of transportation technology are generally complementary, not competitive, so investing in one is likely to create more opportunities for investing in the other.

I think some of this is human nature--like sports fans arguing with each other. But I also suspect it is a byproduct of the recent decades of underinvestment in transportation infrastructure in the United States, which has made some U.S. fans of transportation sort of like starving dogs fighting over any scrap of food that falls to the floor.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

eh , why are you guys all ganging up on me like a lynch mob.....sheesh i gave my opinion which many fellow Rail Fanners and Transit bloggers agree with me on.

People aren't ganging up on you, they are all individually disagreeing with you. The fact that you aren't accustomed to such disagreement suggests that maybe you haven't been testing these ideas very often among people who aren't predisposed to agree with you.

But i really don't see the point in spend public $$ for a long Bike Trail. It should be a private investment.

Since you believe it is OK to invest in public amenities in general, you have to do more than just make these bare assertions. In other words, as long as the public is using and enjoying these trails, that is the same basic case to be made for state parks, public libraries, and so on. And it also stimulates economic development, as a bonus.

And you already tipped your hand anyway: you seem to think this is somehow anti-rail, which is your real concern. But you seem to be saying that as some sort of general abstract principle, without actually considering whether and how it would apply to this particular case.

Anyway how much did the govt pour into this?

I don't know if anyone knows the exact answer to that, because so many different groups have been responsible for different projects along the trail. I can tell you it is likely a very small number in the greater scheme of things, in part because I know there have been many private contributions, and in part because it just isn't that expensive of a project to begin with.

[greg42]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

eh , why are you guys all ganging up on me like a lynch mob.....sheesh i gave my opinion which many fellow Rail Fanners and Transit bloggers agree with me on...Public $$$ should not be used for Bike Trails. I have no problem with Bike lanes , I think the Govt should invest more in them and create city wide networks in every city. But i really don't see the point in spend public $$ for a long Bike Trail. It should be a private investment. Anyway how much did the govt pour into this?

Well, you can believe that public $$ shouldn't be used for bike trails if you like. Nobody's stopping you, not even us. But you can't justify it with bogus stuff without expecting people to call you on it. I'm calling you on your Appalachian Trail remark, because it appears to demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge about the commerce that happens along the Appalachian Trail. And of course the Appalachian Trail is not a bike trail anyway.

That said, a long bike trail doesn't seem any different to me than other types of spending on recreation (local/state/national parks, for example).

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

CSX was the big one.



Here is an article on the subject:

Better Amtrak service for bikers still around the bend



I hope you are right. In any event, nothing about this trail would conflict with a new HSR line.

CSX eh , thats strange........might explain why public $$$ was needed.
I'm never wrong when it comes to future Rail projects , they might be scaled back but will still be built.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

There is an unfortunate tendency among some fans of one sort of transporation technology to attack other forms of transportation technology. This is generally foolish, because different forms of transportation technology are generally complementary, not competitive, so investing in one is likely to create more opportunities for investing in the other.

I think some of this is human nature--like sports fans arguing with each other. But I also suspect it is a byproduct of the recent decades of underinvestment in transportation infrastructure in the United States, which has made some U.S. fans of transportation sort of like starving dogs fighting over any scrap of food that falls to the floor.

Haha , we have divisions in Northeast to keep us form fighting. Its like a territorial thing , each Rail fanner owns a certain amount of the line and fans on that portion or a little more. The Pittsburgh area is controlled by 15 fanners. There are neutral areas to fan , like cities and Major stations. Bus Fanners and Streetcar / Light Rail fanners like me often fight with each other or the future of transportation and who owns what or who can fan with who. I own the entire Hudson Bergen Light Rail / Newark system bragging rights , to them. Thats all it really is is bragging rights.... I often fight with the Freight fanners over the dumbest of issues , there really territorial , like a few are upstate Penndot is restoring and electrifying old rail lines for Passenger service. Its a very interesting , fun , yet intense hobby...

[tranceFusion]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

eh , why are you guys all ganging up on me like a lynch mob.....sheesh i gave my opinion which many fellow Rail Fanners and Transit bloggers agree with me on...Public $$$ should not be used for Bike Trails. I have no problem with Bike lanes , I think the Govt should invest more in them and create city wide networks in every city. But i really don't see the point in spend public $$ for a long Bike Trail. It should be a private investment. Anyway how much did the govt pour into this?

What is the difference in a bike trail and a bike lane? They both get you from one place to another on a bike, right? If anything, they may encourage biking to get to places otherwise inaccessible via an automobile?

[airwave09]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

Name projects , biking outside Major cities is not considered a form of Transportation more like Recreational device.

Look it up yourself, the amtrak roll-on roll-off is already going to happen, and yes it is due to an significant demand for the service.

[airwave09]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

eh , why are you guys all ganging up on me like a lynch mob.....sheesh i gave my opinion which many fellow Rail Fanners and Transit bloggers agree with me on...Public $$$ should not be used for Bike Trails. I have no problem with Bike lanes , I think the Govt should invest more in them and create city wide networks in every city. But i really don't see the point in spend public $$ for a long Bike Trail. It should be a private investment. Anyway how much did the govt pour into this?

Did you ignore the part where I said that the trail has likely already paid for itself due to the money it has generated from out of town riders? We are talking 700,000 riders per year already and the trail alliance committee is predicting it will easily surpass 1,000,000 per year by the time the final two sections are complete. That isn't chump change.

Don't forget that people on bikes are more likely to get out and explore the trail towns and spend money along the way then people just riding through on a train trying to get to a destination city.

[DarkWolf]

oh nevermind , my CSX friend told me where the public $$$ went .....sigh........he said it went to buying up the ROW.

[kgavala]

11-11-11 can't come soon enough--this is a huge step for the cycling community in Pittsburgh, as it will open up a safe and easy route to the Waterfront from other areas in the city. As it stands now, it is a very dangerous ride to get there.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Either way you have to get over the hump in the middle, but the maximum upward grade is lower going east.

Edit: Oh, and I have heard of people averaging everything from around 30 miles a day to 70 or more. So, call it roughly 5-10 days depending on the pace you want to set.

The ride from around Connellsville to 20 miles before Cumberland is uphill. Only a 1% grade, but mile after mile of this takes its toll on you. Crossing the Eastern Continental Divide was one of the best parts of the trip--you are rewarded with a mostly downhill trip (again, very slight) the rest of the way--we averaged ~18 mph for a few hours after that point.

My boyfriend and I rode the trail from Boston, PA to Washinton DC at the end of August. Left Thursday morning, got there midday Sunday. Our mileage was 90-80-90-55, approximately. We had a lot of people doubting that we could do it in three and a half days but we're both young and in good enough shape...it definitely tested us but was still a great experience. There were a couple detours we took, one of which was 20 miles of paved rail trail (an amazingly welcome break from the C&O towpath), and another of which consisted of getting slightly disoriented in rolling Maryland hills--not so fun when you have 40 pounds of gear on your bike.

Once the GAP is completed here, I want to do the trip again (at a more leisurely pace this time). We were able to box up our bikes at the Amtrak station in DC, but service was TERRIBLE. Hopefully roll-on service will be offered by then. This would make the trip much more possible and appealing for a wider variety of people.