Drink Tax debate up again

[gg]

Originally Posted by bbrian12

PA liquor pricing
wholesale cost + 30% upcharge + 18% flood tax + 7% tax man tax = over half of a bottle of booze is tax. so in other words if a bottle cost 20$, 11$ of it goes to the state. how nice would it be to pay 9$ for a bottle of name brand whiskey instead of 20$

Once a new tax is there, it is there forever. Lots of people are employed by restaurants and bars. LOTS! The more owners make the better for our economy. Drink taxes are not a good way to raise money. Broad taxes are less as a percentage and more fair. Allegheny spoke when Onaroto didn't even win this county. No more new taxes. Enough is enough. Too late for a drink tax in our county. If you live on the boarder of Butler or Westmoreland you can hope over the border and drink cheaper. 7% can add up pretty fast. I feel bad for those places that got hit with the 10% and were close to a border. Once people move to another place, they may not come back. 10% is a hit!

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

7% can add up pretty fast.

No, not really. Say your bar tab for the night is $20. 7% is $1.40. $1.40 isn't going to cover the cost of going somewhere even slightly less convenient than your usual place, unless it is almost literally next door.

[gg]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

No, not really. Say your bar tab for the night is $20. 7% is $1.40. $1.40 isn't going to cover the cost of going somewhere even slightly less convenient than your usual place, unless it is almost literally next door.

Add that to the taxes already in place. There are some that don't want to pay it for spite as well. I applaud the places that separate the tax on the bill and call it what it is. I don't think anyone should ever forget the person that started ANOTHER new tax. Like we need even more new taxes. We just won't agree on this one. I have owned a bar, so my view will be different. I think it is totally unfair for one industry to be taxed in this way. If you buy a beer at a bar you pay the tax. If you buy beer from a distributor you don't pay it. It tells me, they want people not to go out and spend money. It has always been much cheaper to stay home, but now it is even 7% less to stay home and not that long ago it was 10% cheaper.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Add that to the taxes already in place.

What taxes are you referring to? Note this is in the context of people deciding to change where they drink in order to avoid the drink tax, so you'll have to explain why the other taxes weren't enough, but this last tax made all the difference.

Generally, booze is cheap and a 7% tax on something cheap is going to have a hard time outweighing the additional costs in terms of time, gasoline, health and legal risks, and so that would result for most people in Allegheny County changing where they drink to somewhere outside the County.

There are some that don't want to pay it for spite as well.

Maybe, but that is a different theory than the costs actually adding up. And I seriously doubt many people will permanently spend more in terms of time, gas, risk and so on in order to continue a futile protest.

We just won't agree on this one. I have owned a bar, so my view will be different. I think it is totally unfair for one industry to be taxed in this way.

Your better arguments are about fairness, and I basically agree, except I would demand a comprehensive alternative be put in place first. In other words, as soon as an alternative means of funding the County's contribution to public transportation is secured, I will happily join you in advocating the end of the drink tax in favor of this alternative.

Where we disagree is when you attempt to supplement your fairness arguments with dire warnings of massive unemployment caused by the drink tax. It hasn't happened, and won't happen, because it doesn't make economic sense for it to happen.

It has always been much cheaper to stay home, but now it is even 7% less to stay home and not that long ago it was 10% cheaper.

Which is exactly why the mass unemployment argument doesn't make sense. If people drinking in bars and restaurants were that sensitive to price, they would already be drinking at home. The truth is that they aren't all that sensitive to price, such that a 7% increase just won't have much impact on their behavior.

[Copanut]

When the tax was first proposed I recall a wedding/hall/catering business located in Marshall township had a legit complaint. Being close to the Butler county line they could see people choosing another place over theirs for a wedding or event. I know what I paid for my bar tab when I got married, adding 7% on to 4K might have made me change venues.

I would rather see the county raise the millage rate to cover PAT, seems more equitable than targeting a special interest. But, Dan Dan the Tax Man wanted to leave office saying he never raised property taxes. Well, he better not run next year, cuz taxes are going up.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Copanut

When the tax was first proposed I recall a wedding/hall/catering business located in Marshall township had a legit complaint. Being close to the Butler county line they could see people choosing another place over theirs for a wedding or event. I know what I paid for my bar tab when I got married, adding 7% on to 4K might have made me change venues.

Really? 7% of $4K is $280. I'm trying to imagine telling my wife our choice of place to hold our reception would be dictated by $280.

I'm not saying it is absolutely impossible that some person somewhere once changed a decision based on this factor. But seriously, it isn't going to happen on a scale necessary to have widespread effects, and I even doubt most of the anecdotes.

[Copanut]

Hey, I could have put that money into her engagement ring.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Copanut

Hey, I could have put that money into her engagement ring.

True--$280 will buy a lot of cubic zirconia.

[Aqua Teen Carl]

$280 would buy alot of tax-free home brew supplies.

[gg]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Really? 7% of $4K is $280. I'm trying to imagine telling my wife our choice of place to hold our reception would be dictated by $280.

I'm not saying it is absolutely impossible that some person somewhere once changed a decision based on this factor. But seriously, it isn't going to happen on a scale necessary to have widespread effects, and I even doubt most of the anecdotes.

Add that to the owners in Allegheny country that already have inflated prices compared to Butler county because there property taxes are so much higher. So your little $280 will be added to other inflated costs of doing business in Allegheny county compared to Bulter. You may think it doesn't matter, but it is an accumulation of more taxes and more taxes that make the poor bar/restaurant owners struggle if they are next to other counties.

If you are planning a wedding close to Butler county and you get estimates from different halls, you might as well just call the one in Butler county. They have a 7% cushion built in for booze on top of property tax advantages. Ouch. Thanks Dan O for making it even worse to try and compete. It is here forever now. You can't get rid of a new tax once it is in the mix. I used to go to a place after volleyball called Carmody's. They were on the border and were more than upset. They stated they did lose people when it was 10% at the start and they didn't get them back. Sometimes people will not want to pay it because they don't believe in it, not just the money.