New report evaluates HSR routes, including PGH's (Pittsburgh, Lancaster: buses, train)

[squarian]

Originally Posted by pman

Most likely if theud funded zoo to win it would be worth running electric to harriburg and changing there...perhaps saving another 15 minutes.

Could you explain this - zoo? Maybe give me some background and/or links? Not being snippy or argumentative, understand - I'd just like to know more about what you're saying.

[pman]

Originally Posted by squarian

Could you explain this - zoo? Maybe give me some background and/or links? Not being snippy or argumentative, understand - I'd just like to know more about what you're saying.

I think it's buried somewhere in this thread but here's some detail
http://planthekeystone.com/assets/do...rvicePartI.pdf

zoo is, or was, a large interlocking where the pennsylvania's nec met the main line (or broaway of commerce) to pittsburgh. it distributed trains to the upper level of 30th/center city (commuter), lower level (south bound passenger and through freight), high line (port of Philadelphia), and directly west (western suburbs and pittsburgh). ny-pittsburgh trains stopped in north philadelphia rather than 30th st. at any rate, proposed for renewal was a project to rework this area which is now a patchwork of what was and what could be duct taped together such that speeds would be raised from 15mph to 80 mph...though I often wonder if it would be cheaper to restore rather than rework (there are tunnels and a flyover here related to the pittsburgh subway).

[Picksburg Stillers]

Some big news on the HSR front. California's non-partisan Legislative Analyst's Office recommends putting a hold on funding of HSR, dismantling the CHSRA, renegotiating terms for receiving federal money, and postponing planning of an HSR route. If the state government goes through with these recommendations, this would most likely result in California turning down any federal high speed rail funds. Here's the report.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

State College isn't on the rail line they are using.

Obviously. I can't imagine the train sailing through State College but stopping in Lewistown. I just wonder why is there no Amtrak route through State College? Terrain? Or did they want the shortest route between Harrisburg to Altoona, and Lewistown and Huntingdon lucked out?

I think a HSR line from Philly to Pittsburgh could also use a station around Altoona. Not all the trains would need to stop, but both Harrisburg and Pittsburgh are a bit too far for that region.

Possibly, but if it comes to ridership and time, they might even skip Altoona. The TGV goes a lot faster I know, but it goes from Paris to Lyon, non-stop. I would think true HSR trains stop at the major cities only.

[pman]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

Obviously. I can't imagine the train sailing through State College but stopping in Lewistown. I just wonder why is there no Amtrak route through State College? Terrain? Or did they want the shortest route between Harrisburg to Altoona, and Lewistown and Huntingdon lucked out?

when the route was planned, penn state didn't even exist yet....the route is already 40 miles longer than driving and state college would worsen that situation. FYI-Altoona was founded by the pennsylvania railroad to service its locomotives and provider helper engines to get over the horseshoe curve...this was in the steam days. altoona didn't so much luck out as it exists because of the route that was chosen.

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

Possibly, but if it comes to ridership and time, they might even skip Altoona. The TGV goes a lot faster I know, but it goes from Paris to Lyon, non-stop. I would think true HSR trains stop at the major cities only.

that's possible and really, the best route is probably parallel to the turnpike (which was originally the south penn RR) which would be shorter and with no stops but it's feasible that american hsr, really just faster trains, might conceivably stop in altoona for the time being.

regarding CA, I won't speculate on their state's politics but hopefully PA could take advantage. this state's projects could be implemented in a few years and wouldn't take a decade to complete. hopefully the state would have a more fleshed out plan when these funds became available.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

Possibly, but if it comes to ridership and time, they might even skip Altoona. The TGV goes a lot faster I know, but it goes from Paris to Lyon, non-stop. I would think true HSR trains stop at the major cities only.

Well, it depends a bit how you define "true" HSR. But there are trains that would count as very fast in the U.S. that stop all over the place in Europe:

File:High Speed Railroad Map Europe 2011.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course you can schedule different services on the same route (both a "local" and an "express"). Personally, I think we will need some "local" stations in the U.S. HSR network to serve as a replacement for smaller airports.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by pman

when the route was planned, penn state didn't even exist yet....the route is already 40 miles longer than driving and state college would worsen that situation. FYI-Altoona was founded by the pennsylvania railroad to service its locomotives and provider helper engines to get over the horseshoe curve...this was in the steam days. altoona didn't so much luck out as it exists because of the route that was chosen.

I'm aware of Altoona's railroad historic roots. I was referring to Lewistown and Huntingdon that lucked out by being along the route. Lewistown surprisingly was an important town because of the Pennsylvania Canal but declined as the canal declined. Apparently, even the rail route is not enough to stop its decline.

[BrianTH]

Some pushback on the LAO report from the CAHSRblog:

California High Speed Rail Blog » Legislative Analyst Wants to Give HSR the Scott Walker Treatment

[pman]

while it's good that this study is putting together an action plan to improve rail service that might actually happen, it seems to me this $1.5 million study should also look at what high speed rail might look like and how much it might cost. I would guess Amtrak and NS could determine a list of modest improvements, possibly for free. that said, a four hour trip to harrisburg with improved OTP and 20 minutes east of Harrisburg should result in a 2 hour reduction (more to NY) which would mean 5h20m to Philly. not high speed rail, but certainly more useful than what we have today

It might not be possible to develop true high-speed rail in the rail corridor between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg, a PennDOT official and consultant studying the line said on Monday.
...The likelihood of reaching 110 mph in this corridor is unlikely at this point," said Rick Shannon...
Garrett and Shannon envision four hours as a goal for passenger trains -- one that requires incremental improvements over time to achieve, rather than a substantial one-time public investment...You can't really gauge demand accurately (based on ridership numbers). There just aren't enough available seats," said Michael Alexander, a Pittsburgh-based council member of the National Association of Railroad Passengers.

Read more: Pittsburgh to Harrisburg high-speed rail called unlikely - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review Pittsburgh to Harrisburg high-speed rail called unlikely - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by pman

while it's good that this study is putting together an action plan to improve rail service that might actually happen, it seems to me this $1.5 million study should also look at what high speed rail might look like and how much it might cost.

Absolutely. I accept that it will likely take a new ROW to provide true HSR to Pittsburgh, and right now there isn't money for that. But you never know when serious money might become available, and we should make sure we are ready next time.