What attitudes are more prevalent among people who lived here pre-steel-bust? (Pittsburgh: cheap house, neighborhoods)

[Caladium]

Originally Posted by Caladium

I think the point was there are plenty of kids in the suburbs. At least that's the point I got out of the photos. It was in response to a poster who said kids who live in suburbs have nobody to play with because the houses are too far apart. I guess there might be suburban neighborhoods with few or no kids but my neighborhood is swarming with them, FWIW.

Something just occurred to me. Is it possible that Pittsburgh has sort of a unique situation regarding kids in the suburbs as a result of the steel bust? I suppose it's possible that some people in 1980s freaked out over the steel bust and became financially afraid to start families. It's conceivable that the result would be a period of time where there would be suburban neighborhoods without lots of children.

Is that the case in Pittsburgh, or are the Pittsburgh suburbs pretty much like suburbs everywhere else?

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by Caladium

Something just occurred to me. Is it possible that Pittsburgh has sort of a unique situation regarding kids in the suburbs as a result of the steel bust? I suppose it's possible that some people in 1980s freaked out over the steel bust and became financially afraid to start families. It's conceivable that the result would be a period of time where there would be suburban neighborhoods without lots of children.

Is that the case in Pittsburgh, or are the Pittsburgh suburbs pretty much like suburbs everywhere else?

The population of the entire metro area dropped in the 70s, 80s, 90s and 2000s; it has apparently started leveling off. Many schools closed, consolidated, etc, indicating fewer children. I don't know if people who stayed were afraid to start families, or if the ones who stayed had the jobs and life went on much as usual for them. Certainly, the younger adults were the ones who left in large numbers.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Katiana

At the risk of getting into an argument here, a public "street fair" is not the same.

It is a party specifically for Downtown residents and their guests:

Downtown Neighborhood Block Party | Pittsburgh Downtown Partnership

And yes, you are quibbling for no real purpose.

Here are some pictures:

Market Square Pittsburgh: Rock Around The Block

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Caladium

Something just occurred to me. Is it possible that Pittsburgh has sort of a unique situation regarding kids in the suburbs as a result of the steel bust?

So something like that did happen, but not limited to the suburbs.

During the steel bust, people without jobs yet (e.g., people just graduating HS at the wrong time) or without much seniority were the ones most likely to leave. Those with lots of seniority or those already near retirement anyway were most likely to stay. The result was that the depopulation was disproportionately concentrated among young adults, who took their existing or future kids with them.

So the area did end up disproportionately older and with disproportionately few children. Those conditions are gradually working themselves out of the numbers, but they are still observable in the age distributions even today.

[normie]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

So something like that did happen, but not limited to the suburbs.

During the steel bust, people without jobs yet (e.g., people just graduating HS at the wrong time) or without much seniority were the ones most likely to leave. Those with lots of seniority or those already near retirement anyway were most likely to stay. The result was that the depopulation was disproportionately concentrated among young adults, who took their existing or future kids with them.

So the area did end up disproportionately older and with disproportionately few children. Those conditions are gradually working themselves out of the numbers, but they are still observable in the age distributions even today.

Brian, that was a very interesting post. So it would indeed be possible for Pittsburgh at this point in time to have suburbs without many children. Although that will probably change in the very near future (if it hasn't already). There are probably some neighborhoods built in the 1960's that now have mostly an older population. The original buyers have not yet moved out, and their kids grew up but left the area after the Steel Bust instead of buying a house nearby and raising their own kids.

Regarding the photos, yes the reason I posted the photos was to show that lots of kids live in a typical suburb. Despite what RR likes to say about the "sterile Nova suburbs" we do seem to pop out a huge number of babies. The kids seem to have no trouble finding each other, and, despite video games, they still seem to spend lots of time outdoors playing with each other

BTW, this morning we had an ice storm, and my neighbors came over to check on us. Since they were going to the store, they offered to get us a few things so we wouldn't have to drive on the ice. I just thought I'd mention it for the benefit of those who have recently said people in suburbs wish to be isolated and don't want to know each other.

Anyway, before this veers into a city vs. suburb thread let me say that most of Pittsburgh's urban neighborhoods seem like very friendly places. Neighborhood parties are not just a burb thing. People gathering on the steps of an apartment building to share a few beers isn't all that different. I believe RR talked about a tree lighting ceremony in his neighborhood. The way he described it, it was mostly neighbors catching up on what's new with each other.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by normie

Brian, that was a very interesting post. So it would indeed be possible for Pittsburgh at this point in time to have suburbs without many children. Although that will probably change in the very near future (if it hasn't already). There are probably some neighborhoods built in the 1960's that now have mostly an older population. The original buyers have not yet moved out, and their kids grew up but left the area after the Steel Bust instead of buying a house nearby and raising their own kids.

Well, thanks to Google Maps, I've discovered that my old elementary school Eastmont was torn down. They've murdered my childhood! (You bastards!) But yeah, that neighborhood is probably "old" now but when I was a kid, we knew our neighbors and did stuff together although we never had a block party. Might help if one lives in a cul-de-sac.

Regarding the photos, yes the reason I posted the photos was to show that lots of kids live in a typical suburb. Despite what RR likes to say about the "sterile Nova suburbs" we do seem to pop out a huge number of babies. The kids seem to have no trouble finding each other, and, despite video games, they still seem to spend lots of time outdoors playing with each other

BTW, this morning we had an ice storm, and my neighbors came over to check on us. Since they were going to the store, they offered to get us a few things so we wouldn't have to drive on the ice. I just thought I'd mention it for the benefit of those who have recently said people in suburbs wish to be isolated and don't want to know each other.

Even so, one can't say that captures the neighborhood climate of NoVa in general. And yes, ice storms and even power outages do tend to bring people out in that way, as crises of a sort usually do. Amazing what propaganda a camera can do.

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by Caladium

Something just occurred to me. Is it possible that Pittsburgh has sort of a unique situation regarding kids in the suburbs as a result of the steel bust? I suppose it's possible that some people in 1980s freaked out over the steel bust and became financially afraid to start families. It's conceivable that the result would be a period of time where there would be suburban neighborhoods without lots of children.

Is that the case in Pittsburgh, or are the Pittsburgh suburbs pretty much like suburbs everywhere else?

No -- pretty much we all left Pittsburgh. My sister stayed, my other sister and I left. Out of my friends and high school class mates, most of them have moved away. Same with my husband's friends.

He graduated from Beaver High (78)and I was from Seneca Valley.(77) We met in 1979, married in 1983 and moved in 84...

The fact we don't have kids is we never wanted them -- had nothing to do with the steel bust.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by normie

So it would indeed be possible for Pittsburgh at this point in time to have suburbs without many children. Although that will probably change in the very near future (if it hasn't already). There are probably some neighborhoods built in the 1960's that now have mostly an older population. The original buyers have not yet moved out, and their kids grew up but left the area after the Steel Bust instead of buying a house nearby and raising their own kids.

Yep. But what is indeed happening now in some areas is young families are gradually replacing pre-steel-bust seniors who are passing away, moving to Florida, or so on. That's a very uneven process, though.

[normie]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

Even so, one can't say that captures the neighborhood climate of NoVa in general.

Actually, I can say that. And, I am saying that.

Which is not to say it represents every single neighborhood. But, IMO, it's typical of the neighborhoods down here (and I wouldn't be surprised if it's typical of neighborhoods up there, too.)

It sounds like you think I took photos last fall so that I could use them for some sort of propoganda campaign on the 7th page of some random thread on the Pittsburgh forum in January. Sure, that's likely. Let me guess, I also hired all those people to pose, and planted the trees?

[BrianTH]

Not to step into the middle of anything, but I sorta see the question of block parties as being not all that significant in terms of kid-friendliness. I mean I appreciate a good block party, but it is also a very easy thing to pull off as long as there is local interest.

To me a more interesting question is how much informal interaction is there between kids in different families. Do kids meet up outside school and other organized events? Can they do so without help from parents (e.g., without cars)?

I don't think there is any hard and fast rule about cities versus suburbs when it comes to such matters. But I can say I was disappointed with my classic post-WWII master-planned development in the Detroit suburbs when it came to such matters. We had good block parties, a nice Halloween, and so forth. But on a daily basis, it was often pretty solitary--we would ride our bikes around and not really see other kids much--it didn't help there was no sort of commercial area even within reasonable biking distance. When we got older, our school friends were scattered all over, and we needed our parents to drive us around to get to other people's houses, a local shopping mall or movie theater to hang out, and such. Then we started driving ourselves, which was a great boost to social interaction--and in retrospect, very dangerous.

Again, I don't think suburbs have to be this way, and I know some that aren't. But I do think those informal, autonomous interactions are more important to consider than things like block parties and such.