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Old 02-04-2011, 02:49 PM
 
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I was in the Atlanta forum where the Port of Savannah was being talked about. The Panama Canal will be expanded to allow larger ships through which will mean more and larger container ships. Savannah hopes to receive this traffic and become the largest port in the east.

But it occurred to me. There is one other possibility but I don't know if it is being acted upon.

New Orleans could become a much more important port because it is at the mouth of the Mississippi. In turn, it could become an even larger shipping nexus point if it encourages more barge traffic on Mississippi and its tributaries which is middle America including Pittsburgh. Barge shipping like ocean shipping is very cost effective. Container shipping on rivers by barges is big in Europe such as on the Rhine or the Danube. St Louis is expecting to do more barge traffic so maybe Pittsburgh as well. Maybe the locks in the Pittsburgh area and down the Ohio need to be larger?

Problem is that the traffic is from Asia and they will be sending manufactured goods and what they want is raw materials. Not likely to revive Pittsburgh as a manufacturing town again. But the stuff will be imported regardless so this might help revive middle America.
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Old 02-04-2011, 03:37 PM
 
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So first of all, the Port of Pittsburgh--which is not a particular spot, but actually a zone governed by a common authority which extends for many miles along all three rivers--is already one of the most important inland ports in the country. I have usually seen it ranked #3 after Huntington (which again actually stretches over many miles) and St Louis.

As for the Panama Canal widening, CSX is preparing for it with its "National Gateway" project (as an aside, this project was one of the major beneficiaries of the federal stimulus program known as TIGER):

National Gateway

Among other things, the National Gateway project involves improving the CSX rail lines from the major Mid-Atlantic ports through Pittsburgh and on into Ohio in order to allow double-stacking the whole way. It also involves plans for a new multimodal terminal in Pittsburgh (location still TBD).

I suspect that as fuel costs rise, the widened Canal opens, and the National Gateway project is completed, we will likely see more goods entering the interior of the country through Atlantic ports and by train to Pittsburgh for transfer to inland waterways.
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Old 02-04-2011, 04:27 PM
gg
 
Location: Pittsburgh
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We need all this to move the Chinese imports all over the place, since nothing is made in the US anymore. I would imagine every transportation there can be will be needed since everything has to travel such huge distances.
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Old 02-04-2011, 06:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h_curtis View Post
We need all this to move the Chinese imports all over the place, since nothing is made in the US anymore. I would imagine every transportation there can be will be needed since everything has to travel such huge distances.
Container-on-barge shipping is relatively new in the US so there is a lot of potential for growth. The Mississippi river system is extensive.



So much development and population has shifted to the east and west coasts and the interior has become somewhat irrelevant, except Chicago. In other words, this is a politically selling point for support from Washington as a revival of the rust-belt and heartland.

Lower costs drives so much of shipping decisions and for non-time critical shipping (but still predictable) container-on-barge saves a lot. And once the the load is delivered, the tugboats want to take stuff back down river so this can spawn industries or cause industries to locate along the rivers for cheap shipping to Asia or maybe elsewhere.
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Old 02-04-2011, 07:05 PM
 
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By the way, are you familiar with the new Marine Highways program?

DOT Maritime Administration - America's Marine Highway Program

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Old 02-04-2011, 07:25 PM
 
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No, but we know all this. Full of promise but not much happening. I'm looking for some sort of impetus to revive river commerce. It has become irrelevant except for shipping grain or coal and stuff like that. Container shipping is huge on the east and especially the west coast. Until now, the Gulf of Mexico didn't seem to be much of a player. Barge container shipping is new to the US but it seemed to be a small market because how many overseas container ships want to go to the gulf when they can dock on the east coast? But now, with a substantial increase in container traffic from Asia, they might see New Orleans as lucrative because these ships want to return carrying a full load. Shipping and receiving via barge is cheaper and there are a lot source and destination points in the Mississippi River Basin. The Port of Savannah being able to fill container ships possibly makes it more appealing than other ports but New Orleans can pull in a lot and distribute much.
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Old 02-04-2011, 11:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
No, but we know all this. Full of promise but not much happening.
The Marine Highways program just started in 2010. I think it is a little early to make that call.

Quote:
But now, with a substantial increase in container traffic from Asia, they might see New Orleans as lucrative.
There will probably be an increase in traffic in New Orleans, but keep in mind a lot of final destinations are on the East Coast to begin with, and the quickest water route from the Canal to near those destinations is just to keep on going to East Coast ports. And collectively, those ports either have or are building a lot of capacity, and the upgraded rail links they will need to serve farther inland.

So I think you are right that U.S. inland waterways are bound for an increasing role in the import/container business. But I really think you are looking in the wrong direction--I suspect there will be more container traffic going downstream from Pittsburgh than up.
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Old 02-04-2011, 11:19 PM
 
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Here is a very nice Wired article on the Marine Highways program, which includes a discussion of what they do in Europe and how it could be applied in the U.S.:

DOT to Turn Underused Waterways Into Marine Highways | Autopia | Wired.com
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Old 02-05-2011, 03:53 AM
 
Location: About 10 miles north of Pittsburgh International
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I seem to remember somebody advocating for industrial uses of sites like the Hazelwood mill site, based partly on its proximity to the river, and potential barge traffic.

Now who was that?
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Old 02-05-2011, 05:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchdigger View Post
I seem to remember somebody advocating for industrial uses of sites like the Hazelwood mill site, based partly on its proximity to the river, and potential barge traffic.
Nice try, but here is the "Port of Pittsburgh":



Welcome to the Port of Pittsburgh Commission - About The Port District

Quote:
The Pittsburgh Port District encompasses a twelve county area including Allegheny, Armstrong, Beaver, Blair, Butler, Clarion, Fayette, Greene, Indiana, Lawrence, Washington, and Westmoreland Counties, essentially all 200 miles of commercially navigable waterways in southwestern Pennsylvania. It includes the three major rivers in southwestern PA: the Allegheny, the Monongahela, and the Ohio. This waterway is made navigable by a system of seventeen locks and dams. The Port of Pittsburgh supports over 200 river terminals and barge industry service suppliers, including privately owned public river terminals.
You don't have to be inside the City of Pittsburgh (that little purple area in the middle) in order to make use of the Port of Pittsburgh--anywhere along any of those 200 miles of rivers would do. But again, nice try.
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