02-05-2011, 09:03 AM
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There's an article in the Wall Street Journal this weekend that basically says that Pittsburgh hasn't come to terms with its huge unfunded pension liabilities to city workers and that, unless the city takes action in the near future, it's either going to go bankrupt or have to raise taxes quite a bit. The article notes that the city's infrastructure needs aren't being addressed because such a high percentge of the taxes collected currently is paid out as pensions, in some cases to workers who retire at age 50.
Is this old news in Da Burgh? Are there sensible plans being discussed to bring these costs under control? The mayor seemed to be acutely aware of the problem, but not sure how to deal with it.
And how will this affect the city's efforts to attract more younger, better-educated workers to the city? Even if home prices are affordable, won't people hesitate if they run the risk of a large tax increase within a few years or they don't think potholes or bridges will be repaired in their lifetimes?
Last edited by JD984; 02-05-2011 at 09:20 AM ..
02-05-2011, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
JEB77
And how will this affect the city's efforts to attract more younger, better-educated workers to the city? Even if home prices are affordable, won't people hesitate if they run the risk of a large tax increase within a few years or they don't think potholes or bridges will be repaired in their lifetimes?
Those issues shouldn't deter people from moving to the greater metro area. There are suburban municipalities within 10 minutes from downtown. People can easily buy houses were taxes remain low and potholes are fixed on occassion.
Your pothole scenario makes me laugh because we've always had potholes throughout my lifetime. I could be wrong, but I believe many of Pittsburgh's key bridges are maintained by PennDot, which is state funded, not city funded. Regardless, it will all work out.
02-05-2011, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
JEB77
Is this old news in Da Burgh? Are there sensible plans being discussed to bring these costs under control? The mayor seemed to be acutely aware of the problem, but not sure how to deal with it.
The mayor is acutely aware of the problem and is doing what he can. Unfortunately, city council is behaving like... city council. All but three of them are total ostriches about the situation.
02-05-2011, 01:54 PM
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The real problem is state law. State law prohibits the City from trimming existing benefits. State law provides for mandatory arbitration of contract renewals for the fire and police unions, and they tend to do well in arbitration. State law prohibits the City from entering bankruptcy without the state's permission (and the state could still prohibit the City from doing anything specifically with pensions even if it was allowed into bankruptcy). State law taxes out-of-state insurance to create a pension assistance fund (so the City is contributing to this fund through this tax), but then allocates that funding to cities based on the number of ACTIVE employees. So when the City tries to cut future benefits by cutting the number of employees, it loses assistance for existing pensions. And so on.
So state law has really put the City in a box, and unless and until the state reforms the relevant laws, the City really just has to try to figure out how to make its payments. Which means making some hard choices, which Council in particular doesn't want to make.
Edit: Oh, and while I agree it doesn't mean people shouldn't live in the Pittsburgh area, I do think these issues affect virtually everyone in the Metro, one way or another. It would be nice if the whole area rallied behind state pension law reform, but unfortunately there is a lot of partisan politics involved, and also some municipalities actually benefit from some this (e.g., you make out well on the pension assistance scheme if you don't have high legacy costs and do have a relatively large active force for your size of municipality).
02-05-2011, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
BrianTH
The real problem is state law. State law prohibits the City from trimming existing benefits. State law provides for mandatory arbitration of contract renewals for the fire and police unions, and they tend to do well in arbitration. State law prohibits the City from entering bankruptcy without the state's permission (and the state could still prohibit the City from doing anything specifically with pensions even if it was allowed into bankruptcy). State law taxes out-of-state insurance to create a pension assistance fund (so the City is contributing to this fund through this tax), but then allocates that funding to cities based on the number of ACTIVE employees. So when the City tries to cut future benefits by cutting the number of employees, it loses assistance for existing pensions. And so on.
So state law has really put the City in a box, and unless and until the state reforms the relevant laws, the City really just has to try to figure out how to make its payments. Which means making some hard choices, which Council in particular doesn't want to make.
Edit: Oh, and while I agree it doesn't mean people shouldn't live in the Pittsburgh area, I do think these issues affect virtually everyone in the Metro, one way or another. It would be nice if the whole area rallied behind state pension law reform, but unfortunately there is a lot of partisan politics involved, and also some municipalities actually benefit from some this (e.g., you make out well on the pension assistance scheme if you don't have high legacy costs and do have a relatively large active force for your size of municipality).
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. Here's the WSJ article (not sure how long this is a free link):
Pittsburgh's Pension Woes Call for a Hail Mary - WSJ.com
One other thing the article mentions is that the city can't collect taxes from hospitals and educational institutions that own a good chunk of the city's real estate - it's reminiscent of DC, where the local government can't tax federal employers (and also isn't authorized to impose any commuter taxes on Maryland or Virginia residents who work in DC).
Currently, how much could one expect to pay in annual taxes on a $300K house in the City of Pittsburgh and what are the prospects that the taxes would increase substantially in the next 5-10 years?
02-05-2011, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
JEB77
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. Here's the WSJ article . . .
Oh yeah, I forgot to include the state laws that allow spiking and early retirement.
Quote:
One other thing the article mentions is that the city can't collect taxes from hospitals and educational institutions that own a good chunk of the city's real estate
Yep. The "non-profits" have lots of revenues, but don't pay property taxes. They do make some other payments, but this is one of the chief reasons the City has a higher wage tax than the surrounding municipalities.
Quote:
Currently, how much could one expect to pay in annual taxes on a $300K house in the City of Pittsburgh and what are the prospects that the taxes would increase substantially in the next 5-10 years?
That's a complex topic. Right now that house should be assessed at its 2002 value (which could be significantly different from $300K, likely lower given such a price point) and then taxed at a total rate of 29.41 mills.
In 2012, every property in Allegheny County will get a new assessment, based on 2010 values, as a result of a court order. But that will trigger a recalculation of the various millage rates due to the state's anti-windfall laws (and the County is also talking about taking other measures). So the actual tax paid could go up or down--it will likely go up a bit for a $300K house, but I'd guess the millage will in fact be lower.
As for the future--who knows? Pittsburgh is perhaps the worst off city in Pennsylvania when it comes to pensions, but many other places are on a similar track, and maybe the state will take action at some point. But in any event, raising property taxes significantly will be one of the last things the City is likely to do, so I suspect it will be a while yet before that is even possibly on the table.
02-05-2011, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
caroline2
The mayor is acutely aware of the problem and is doing what he can. Unfortunately, city council is behaving like... city council. All but three of them are total ostriches about the situation.
Disagree with you on this one. The Mayor's plan did NOT solve the pension crisis. Everything proposed and everything that was passed is nothing more than a short term fix.
Selling off the garages and meters would have had horrible impacts on the city budget down the road.
02-05-2011, 09:43 PM
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Even as someone who has been paying pretty close attention to the pension debacle, the numbers in that article are pretty stunning.
"Pittsburgh already devotes
half of taxpayer dollars to debt, pensions and health-care costs for city workers."
and
"The city's ability to generate tax revenues has been limited by the growth of nonprofit hospitals and universities, which own roughly
40% of city land."
Quote:
Disagree with you on this one. The Mayor's plan did NOT solve the pension crisis.
I said that the mayor was doing what he can, not that he could solve thirty years' worth of mismanagement in one fell swoop. But it was city council that turned down $250 million extra purely out of spite.
02-07-2011, 12:20 PM
Location: O'Hara Twp.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
caroline2
Even as someone who has been paying pretty close attention to the pension debacle, the numbers in that article are pretty stunning.
"Pittsburgh already devotes half of taxpayer dollars to debt, pensions and health-care costs for city workers."
and
"The city's ability to generate tax revenues has been limited by the growth of nonprofit hospitals and universities, which own roughly 40% of city land."
I said that the mayor was doing what he can, not that he could solve thirty years' worth of mismanagement in one fell swoop. But it was city council that turned down $250 million extra purely out of spite.
I agree that half of your budget seem like a lot to basically pay for benefits and debt servicing. Any idea what other cities are spending for the same costs?
02-07-2011, 12:37 PM
Location: Mt. Lebanon
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I just don't know how people can retire at 50 when the retirement age is 67. Isn't this a law or something?
I mean, come on, even in France, a country that values leisure by allowing people to take 6 weeks of vacation per year and countless holidyas, they pushed the retirement age up, sparking protests.
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People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)