Baseball Season (Pittsburgh, Washington, Morton: buy, luxury, calculated)

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Thanks for reminding me that the Pirates are playing soon! I'm going to buy a pair of tickets for next Saturday night's game. I'm looking forward to some new food options and the post-game fireworks! I'm susrprised tickets are only $24/each for the section I'm looking to have us sit in. Since we can walk back-and-forth to the stadium and avoid transit/parking fees we're looking at a total investment of about $60 for two tickets and food/beverages. Not too shabby. I was expecting to be paying more like $75-$90 altogether.

Congrats, you are now a true Pittsburgher! Another fireworks lover.

Going to a Bucco game is very affordable, of course, given the product they put on the field it should be cheap.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Copanut

I disagree, I'll go back when I see them making an effort to get talent. I only went to 2 games last year when friends came into town and wanted to see the stadium. Both nights were SRO, the reason: Fireworks!
It stinks to be a baseball fan in this town.
Most experts consider them the worst team in baseball.
Bob Smizik's Blog

In light of these financial statements, the Pirates have been criticized for refusing to spend money to make money. It's not clear, though, that Pittsburgh's owners could spend more on player salaries without turning their profits into losses...If an extra win excited fans to the tune of, say, $4 million in extra spending, then the $5 million spent per additional win would have really cost the Pirates a mere $1 million. It's also theoretically possible that the additional wins could pay for themselves. If the $5 million win led to $8 million in extra ticket sales, then a free-agent acquisition would pay for himself, and more...Suppose the Pirates buy 20 more wins, for an additional investment of $100 million. According to the Deadspin docs, the club makes around $40 million each season from ticket sales and concessions. In order to stay in the black, they'd need to increase that to $140 million... We haven't accounted for the fact that, if the Pirates suddenly double their ticket sales, MLB will substantially reduce their revenue-sharing income. The effective clawback rate is somewhere around 31 percent, which means that for each additional dollar in ticket sales, the Pirates will receive 31 cents less in revenue-sharing "welfare" payments from the league. So it wouldn't make sense for the Pirates to spend $100 million on salaries unless they could see an increase in revenues of about $145 million. (And that doesn't even take into account the similar clawback on "MLB Central Fund" income, which is the Pirates' share of earnings from sources such as mlb.com.) Clearly, if the Pirates started spending significant money on free agents, they would quickly wind up in the red...

Should the Pirates spend money to win ballgames? - By Phil Birnbaum - Slate Magazine (http://www.slate.com/id/2265068/pagenum/2 - broken link)
there are reasons to question the $5 million per win assumption but the idea that spending more on players results in losing 31% of the welfare dollars is a big problem. if ticket revenue and other revenue go up by $15 million, unless the pirates are insane, they should get marginally better. if they are average, they will win three more games, if they play their cards right, they should win substantially more. one should look across the state to the phillies. while the pirates have little hope of actuall becoming the phillies since they are a much smaller market, it is instructive how the philies moved from middling team to one of the top dogs. they started with a good farm system, as they won, they ploughed earnings back into salaries, which in turn, has led to almost non-stop sellouts which has allowed them to put up a red sox like payroll. the pirates of course, might be better to look at tampa and st louis but the principle is the same. I'd even go so far as improving the fan experience with good beer and food is a cheaper way of boosting attendance than buying free agents.

[Johnny C]

Look people, the Pirates 18 years of futility was caused primarily by really bad baseball decisions - not the small payroll. Plenty of teams have won with smallish payrolls over the last 18 years.

While the Pirates probably should increase their payroll somewhat, they are not simply going to go out and buy a new infield or 5 starting pitchers.

This is a team that has had a very high draft pick for 18 years and yet does not have a #1 ace starting pitcher.

[Mugatu]

Originally Posted by Johnny C

Look people, the Pirates 18 years of futility was caused primarily by really bad baseball decisions - not the small payroll. Plenty of teams have won with smallish payrolls over the last 18 years.

While the Pirates probably should increase their payroll somewhat, they are not simply going to go out and buy a new infield or 5 starting pitchers.

This is a team that has had a very high draft pick for 18 years and yet does not have a #1 ace starting pitcher.

Exactly. I'm from Florida and a Rays fan, and they are a great example of how to build a team in a small market. They made some huge blunders in their first several years of existence, but now they have developing young talent from within down to a science. Their starting 5 - Price, Shields, Davis, Niemann, Hellickson...all draft picks, and all turned out to be quality pitchers, with a true ace in Price. Who have the Pirates developed that's still with the team? Maholm? Blah...

In order to cut payroll this year, the Rays had to let some high priced talent go like Crawford, Pena, Bartlett, and most of last year's bullpen. But they tried to stay competitive by signing some one year stop-gap players like Damon and Manny, and had some young guys ready to step up like Brignac and Jaso. The Pirates are doing better on the offensive side of things, guys like Alvarez and Tabata have potential, and Mccutchen could be a true superstar. But will they reach their full potential in the Pirates organization? Will they trade away Cutch for a bag of balls when it's time for him to earn a big payday? It seems like the Pirates have no idea what to do with talent once they actually have it, and they're too cheap to keep it.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Mugatu

... Will they trade away Cutch for a bag of balls when it's time for him to earn a big payday? It seems like the Pirates have no idea what to do with talent once they actually have it, and they're too cheap to keep it.

not to defend poor scouting, the pirates also have a tendency to trade away their talent to keep salary low..the article above shows that there is an economic incentive to do so. if they hold on to these players they forfeit money. still, I think from a development standpoint, teams should be required to improve their operations if they are going to get a subsidy. the more fans the team draws, the larger return the city and state get from their investment.
anyway, at least it's a great park to watch a game and has decent food...even if my dreams of east end beer at the stadium are still unfulfilled.

[JayDiFiore]

Cheering for the Pirates is like turning on the Discovery channel and cheering for the gazelles.

[Copanut]

I never went to a Bucco game for food, fireworks, bobble-heads, or whatever. I go to watch baseball. The Nuttings don't give a crap about baseball fans, they care about customers and making a profit, and if they can do that with a losing team, why change?

[huphollandhup]

GO PHILS!!!
Can't wait for some Phillies home games when they come to town this June!

[pman]

Originally Posted by Copanut

I never went to a Bucco game for food, fireworks, bobble-heads, or whatever. I go to watch baseball. The Nuttings don't give a crap about baseball fans, they care about customers and making a profit, and if they can do that with a losing team, why change?

that's the point, it's more profitable to lose. montgomery of the phillies isn't losing money by putting out a better team. and yes, there is such a thing as fan experience. how much is it worth? who knows. it's not like the pirates charge a lot of money for their games.

holland-will the phillies saturday night game be the bucs first sellout of the year? it's already standing room only

[Copanut]

It just keeps getting better.

The Pirates well-known desperation for pitching was made clear today when it became known they were close to adding right-handed pitcher Tim Wood to their 25-man roster.
Wood, 28, had been released by the Washington Nationals after a spring in which he had a 6.23 ERA. In four games, he pitched 4 1/3 inning and allowed seven hits, three runs and two walks.