Pittsburgh public schools (bad areas, areas, business)

[gg]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

This is what I am "against":

Have you ever been to really bad areas? Overtown in Miami? Parts of Homewood? Northview Heights? Do you really feel those kids have a chance? Even if you feel some do, what is the percentage that will miraculously break the family tradition? You can hope and pray all you like, but the statistics are on my side. How many make it out of that mess? Guns, drugs and that whole scene. Much of that poverty is a choice. In most cases you can get a job and work your way out of it. Maybe get off the taxpayer's dime at some point.

[WhoIsStanwix?]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Have you ever been to really bad areas? Overtown in Miami? Parts of Homewood? Northview Heights? Do you really feel those kids have a chance? Even if you feel some do, what is the percentage that will miraculously break the family tradition? You can hope and pray all you like, but the statistics are on my side. How many make it out of that mess? Guns, drugs and that whole scene. Much of that poverty is a choice. In most cases you can get a job and work your way out of it. Maybe get off the taxpayer's dime at some point.

I think the question is whether you feel that someone's fate should depend upon their birth parents. Sure, you can probably somewhat successfully argue that those parents are making a "choice" to exhibit certain behaviors, but their kids don't choose that situation. It's not entirely genetic predisposition that poor folks will be poor, it's generation after generation repeatedly being born into bad conditions. Likely that the parents were born into similar "bad" conditions. Ergo, we have a cycle. If you can somehow change those conditions for a few generations, you can break the cycle, hypothetically speaking.

[WhoIsStanwix?]

And before you ask me if I've ever been to really "bad areas", let me tell you that I've spent time in Haiti, the worst of the bad areas in the Western Hemisphere (unless some of Africa is west of the Prime Meridian, in which case, well you get the point...). There is absolutely hope if you can break bad conditions. I've witnessed it firsthand. Opinions will differ on whether you feel taxpayer dollars should be shoveled towards trying to make things better though. It is also fact that there are better ways to handle things than we are doing currently, but I digress.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Have you ever been to really bad areas? Overtown in Miami? Parts of Homewood? Northview Heights? Do you really feel those kids have a chance? Even if you feel some do, what is the percentage that will miraculously break the family tradition? You can hope and pray all you like, but the statistics are on my side. How many make it out of that mess? Guns, drugs and that whole scene. Much of that poverty is a choice. In most cases you can get a job and work your way out of it. Maybe get off the taxpayer's dime at some point.

Don't think so. Those kids are caught in a cycle of poverty, it's easy to say "pull yourself up by the bootstraps", but not so much living in that enviroment.

[robrobrob]

Originally Posted by WhoIsStanwix?

I think the question is whether you feel that someone's fate should depend upon their birth parents. Sure, you can probably somewhat successfully argue that those parents are making a "choice" to exhibit certain behaviors, but their kids don't choose that situation. It's not entirely genetic predisposition that poor folks will be poor, it's generation after generation repeatedly being born into bad conditions. Likely that the parents were born into similar "bad" conditions. Ergo, we have a cycle. If you can somehow change those conditions for a few generations, you can break the cycle, hypothetically speaking.

You are right, it is not the kids fault but the parents. Parents need to participate in their child's education. The question is how to do this.


Kids that overcome poverty usually have a parent that stresses education and example of this would be puttting the child in a magnet or charter school.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by robrobrob

You are right, it is not the kids fault but the parents. Parents need to participate in their child's education. The question is how to do this.


Kids that overcome poverty usually have a parent that stresses education and example of this would be puttting the child in a magnet or charter school.

What the heck do you know, you grew up in Fox Chapel with Curtis.

[gg]

Originally Posted by WhoIsStanwix?

I think the question is whether you feel that someone's fate should depend upon their birth parents. Sure, you can probably somewhat successfully argue that those parents are making a "choice" to exhibit certain behaviors, but their kids don't choose that situation. It's not entirely genetic predisposition that poor folks will be poor, it's generation after generation repeatedly being born into bad conditions. Likely that the parents were born into similar "bad" conditions. Ergo, we have a cycle. If you can somehow change those conditions for a few generations, you can break the cycle, hypothetically speaking.

Glad you agree.

[robrobrob]

Originally Posted by Copanut

What the heck do you know, you grew up in Fox Chapel with Curtis.

I grew up in the Churchill part of Blackridge. My parents sent me to a private school when the merger hit and then moved to O'Hara when my dad couldn't stomach the tuition payments anymore. Believe it or not there is a big difference between O'Hara and Fox Chapel.

So, you are telling me that a parent has nothing to do with whether or not a child escapes poverty? Our problem with our schools is that we haven't figured out how to properly educate children who have no support system at home.

[gg]

Originally Posted by Copanut

Don't think so. Those kids are caught in a cycle of poverty, it's easy to say "pull yourself up by the bootstraps", but not so much living in that enviroment.

What do you mean, you don't think so? Seems you agreed with me. They are in a cycle. The cycle of the children obviously isn't their fault, but the parents that were probably in their own cycle and their parents and theirs, etc. The question is, how to break the cycle of dependence on the taxpayers and the system? Cut it out from under them? Might work. Most will say, aww the poor children or some such thing, but have you seen pictures of very poor areas of the world? To be honest, many are running and playing in the streets.

It isn't some simple puzzle that is for sure. There is one thing I do know, though. Throwing money at schools doesn't make it better. The homelike and attitude need to be the focus. The schools are secondary.

[Lobick]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Most will say, aww the poor children or some such thing, but have you seen pictures of very poor areas of the world? To be honest, many are running and playing in the streets.

"Today's winner of the Marie Antoinette prize for displaying both willful ignorance and callous disregard...h_curtis. Congratulations."