Why The Litter? (Pittsburgh, Aspinwall, Liberty: apartments, to rent, houses)

[Johnny C]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

There is a difference in "generalizations" and observations. I have always wondered why there is so much litter and have focused on the reasons for years. My observations are facts. I never said "all" pickup truck drivers. I said there are lots of them. That IS a fact.

I actually put your use of the word "all" in bold face when I quoted you...

[madmj]

Originally Posted by Hopes

That's an expensive solution. Pittsburgh doesn't have that kind of money to pay for people to pick up garbage.


Certain roads are adopted by corporations. They get free advertising with a sign installed with the company name. But it seems they never actually send employees out to clean up the litter. Their signs should be removed for failing to follow through on the committmet.


Yeah, right. Like the police aren't already busy keeping our communities safe.


Signs cost money. Public awareness costs money. Volunteer groups, like boy scouts do sections of road once a year but certainly don't maintain the roads on a regular basis. Community service is sentenced instead of fines to teenagers in most suburban townships, not sure why the city doesn't do that. I think there's probably a problem wtih taking prisoners out into a highly populated area, too difficult for them to escape. Increasing fines won't deter anyone because the police don't readily write littering tickets---they're busy eating donuts when they're not writing traffic tickets.

Your family is very welcome to move here and volunteer on a weekly basis! My family did it's part during 8 years of boy scouts. Plus, my township doesnt have much litter because the magistrate sentences teenagers to pick up litter. There's always a constant supply of teenagers charged with underaged drinking or possession of marijuana to keep the township clean.

I guess I feel strongly enough that it's a problem worth investing in & that the investment will return a financial gain in spades. Not to even mention the environmental impact on the rivers & such. Either way, I personally feel it deserves more than a 'yeah right' by local law enforcement, but that's just me. Besides, where do you think the increased fines would go to...yep back to the local govt. If my family does move there I look forward to helping out.

As far as the prisoner solution, it works by using those that are 'short timers' & have proven 'good behavior'. It also usually includes those that are non-violent offenders. It's not like the guys from 48 hours (or some old Nolte cop flick)! They have way more to lose by running away then they do by providing community service. Most, if not all, are more than happy to spend the last few months of their incarceration getting outside, even if it's to do road/lawn maintenance or litter clean-up. Usually they are compensated ( like $.25 or something) so that they can buy smokes & candy and such. Seems like a win/win to me.

[madmj]

Originally Posted by Mr. Mon

It's true that the litter seems worse this time of year due to the spring thaw. However, I would have to say that my number one complaint about Pittsburgh is the litter. For a population so "Proud" of their city, Pittsburghers take little actual pride in how our city looks. The cigarette buts, fast food bags, roadie cups from bars, etc... are a real problem.

Having more workers to clean-up helps, but only treats the problem. There needs to be a raised awareness that littering is just not an acceptable behavior.

Both of these two actions combined is what I feel like is necessary to attack the issue.....I have seen it work first hand where I grew up.

If you get a big movement to clean-up the roadways & simultaneously increase public awareness it helps to combat the problem on two fronts.

*Community volunteers pitch in to help install some pride in keeping it clean after that & drivers/walkers see citizens caring at the same time might make then think twice.

*For those that don't care at all, that is where increased fines (which would help revenue to the govt) come in to play.

*The prisoners & community service kids keep up the maintenance from there.

This is just the plan of attack I have seen & I don't know why it wouldn't work universally.

[madmj]

Originally Posted by steindle

Using prisoners to do jobs like this strikes me as a Southern thing, but evidently it happens in PA too:Inmate labor on rise, working along state's highways -- This article also addresses the union issue, FYI.

Not sure how I feel about that.

Thanks for the link. It's an interesting read but the date is from 8 years ago. Does this still go on around Pittsburgh?

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by madmj

I guess I feel strongly enough that it's a problem worth investing in & that the investment will return a financial gain in spades. Not to even mention the environmental impact on the rivers & such. Either way, I personally feel it deserves more than a 'yeah right' by local law enforcement, but that's just me. Besides, where do you think the increased fines would go to...yep back to the local govt. If my family does move there I look forward to helping out.

But there is NO MONEY. You can't bleed blood from a stone. There's a serious pension issue looming in the future.


I was just driving on 28 and I noticed the litter was terrible. It's not always like that.

I do believe you visited at the worst time---just after the winter snow melted and you can see everything before it's been cleaned up for spring. I'm not saying there isn't a litter problem. I'm saying you saw it at its worst.

[gg]

Originally Posted by Hopes

If you ever need a generalization, just call on h_curtis. He's dependable. You can always count on him.

I have studied this issue quite a bit and have discovered from being on my bike all the time that litter comes from three main sources and I will list them in order of most litter offenders.

1. The pickup truck driver that throws trash in his bed and pretends that it is okay, even though it always blows out of his bed when he drives.
2. Many inner-city people (section 8 types) just throw trash around because they have no pride in themselves let alone anyone else.
3. Poorly loaded tri-axles that don't have covers on the loads have things blowing out of them.

That is what I wrote. It is not just some generalization. I actually clean a part of Pittsburgh, unlike 99% of the population around here. I do it because it needs done. I have looked into the litter issue. Most are just sitting on their cans typing away, but I am in the field observing. When I make that list of 3, it is for real. It isn't something off the cuff. I HAVE been observing and looking into the issue as a study. If I was going to add another one to the list would be improperly loaded garbage trucks. I have also seen that, but the pickup is number one. If you are in East Liberty or that kind of area number one would just be the people that live there that have no pride.

It amazes me that people don't just listen and try to learn something. How many people look into this stuff? How many actually go out by themselves and clean a region of this area? I don't think many on here.

[madmj]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

I have studied this issue quite a bit and have discovered from being on my bike all the time that litter comes from three main sources and I will list them in order of most litter offenders.

1. The pickup truck driver that throws trash in his bed and pretends that it is okay, even though it always blows out of his bed when he drives.
2. Many inner-city people (section 8 types) just throw trash around because they have no pride in themselves let alone anyone else.
3. Poorly loaded tri-axles that don't have covers on the loads have things blowing out of them.

That is what I wrote. It is not just some generalization. I actually clean a part of Pittsburgh, unlike 99% of the population around here. I do it because it needs done. I have looked into the litter issue. Most are just sitting on their cans typing away, but I am in the field observing. When I make that list of 3, it is for real. It isn't something off the cuff. I HAVE been observing and looking into the issue as a study. If I was going to add another one to the list would be improperly loaded garbage trucks. I have also seen that, but the pickup is number one. If you are in East Liberty or that kind of area number one would just be the people that live there that have no pride.

It amazes me that people don't just listen and try to learn something. How many people look into this stuff? How many actually go out by themselves and clean a region of this area? I don't think many on here.

I appreciate your contribution to the issue, not to mention this thread. Thank you for your input! I have learned a lot personally.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

That is what I wrote. It is not just some generalization. I actually clean a part of Pittsburgh, unlike 99% of the population around here. I do it because it needs done. I have looked into the litter issue. Most are just sitting on their cans typing away, but I am in the field observing. When I make that list of 3, it is for real. It isn't something off the cuff. I HAVE been observing and looking into the issue as a study. If I was going to add another one to the list would be improperly loaded garbage trucks. I have also seen that, but the pickup is number one. If you are in East Liberty or that kind of area number one would just be the people that live there that have no pride.

My comments were directed towards your "inner city (section 8 types)" generalization. It's no secret how you feel about "those" people, curtis.

[madmj]

Originally Posted by Hopes

My comments were directed towards your "inner city (section 8 types)" generalization. It's no secret how you feel about "those" people, curtis.

I have no idea how this poster feels about "those people", whatever that means, but from our short trip the "inner city" sections that we drove through were certainly not absolved from the issue at hand in this thread.

[I_Like_Spam]

Pittsburgh just doesn't have enough waste reciprocals on the streets, and the city doesn't empty the ones they do have that often.

I used to live on the southside, and they would always be full.

Downtown actually has a special crew who does the clean up of the streets all day, not suprised that you found it considerably cleaner litter wise.