Why The Litter? (Pittsburgh, York, California: home, subdivisions, taxes)

[madmj]

Mod cut - removed off topic or orphaned remark.

As the OP, I will interject again to keep this thread in-tact. H_Curtis has identified specific problems & offenders. I don't think it's a secret that poor/trashy people in the U.S. live like poor/trashy people. His did not name them as the sole culprits, and I don't know why 2 posters feel the need to jump on him....again nor do I care.

We have also identified that rich sections have litter too. I saw first hand that the outer sections have considerable amounts of accumulated trash build up.

So the question is how is the problem best attacked?

Hopes feels that there is not enough $ for extra enforcement. I counter that extra enforcement would actually bring in more $. I don't see how it cost the city $ to just issue more citations.

A few members have mentioned volunteering......is this enough to raise public awareness?

How does everyone feel about using prisoners & community service kids? Hopes mentioned that his area is kept clean by comm. service kids who are forced to pick it up. Is this a good idea?

How responsive are Pittsburgh police? Would they listen if enough people petitioned for stricter enforcement?

Thank you to everybody for the great discussion!

[madmj]

Originally Posted by Mr. Mon

That depends where you are in Europe. Southern Italy, Naples in particular, is pretty trashy. Not to say places can't change, however. Central Paris today is much, much cleaner than just 20 years ago. Extra cleaning crews, plus strict enforcement of anti-littering laws has caused a positive change in the local cultural.

I would really like to see the Pittsburgh Police actively ticketing people who litter. Doing this would be especially helpful Downtown and in East Liberty.

Do you perhaps have an example of how they started to enforce their anti-littering laws. Did they increase cops or just the fines?

[toobusytoday]

Originally Posted by madmj

I need to start this off by saying that both the Mrs. & I thoroughly enjoyed our recent trip to Pittsburgh. I don't think I have ever visited a place & met friendlier people. We loved lots & lots about your great city.

With that said, we both came away almost astounded at the amount of litter along the roadside all throughout the outside towns & neighborhoods of downtown. We rented a car and drove through Bridgeville, Dormont, Mt. Lebanon, Mt. Washington, Regent Square, Lawrenecville, and a few more places in and around the city. Downtown was very clean but I don't undestand why there was the amount of trash piled up in most of the other places.

For example, when we started to come in from the airport we both noticed that there was various kinds of garbage along the side of the hills as we drove. When we got off on an exit there was so many cigarette butts & other litter along the road that you could probably take a snow shovel and fill up dozens of trash cans.

The only other place that I can remember like this was when I lived in L.A. They have a major issue w/ people littering & the city/county couldn't care less & just ignore the problem. In NY the litter is generally taken care of by city/county employees. What's left tends to be picked up by volunteers and such. In Florida litter is picked up along the roadside by the prisoners. I can't believe that a place populated by so many people who have an abundance of pride for their city could be filled w/ litter the way it is.

Why do you think this is? I am not meaning to offend anybody at all. We are considering a possible relocation and I'm just curious as to opinions regarding the root of the problem.

Back on topic please.

[pittsburgheer]

as for the south oakland litter problem and student housing:
the students know they are there for a finite amount of time and feel that it is ok to litter because it's not their neighborhood...only a temporary one. this is no excuse and shows the lack of "class" from a segment of the student body.

the same goes for renters in south squirrel hill...trash in the yards...on the streets. truly deplorable.

the point is: people need to take ownership of their surroundings and then they will take better care of their environment.

people do this all the time to varying degrees...for example: rent a car and if the floor mats get a little muddy....oh well. if you buy a new car and get it gets muddy....you take it to the car wash and clean it up.

take ownership....put your money where your mouth is and people take care of it. this could be a reason why government hand-outs don't work. they make people dependent on others and they lose thier self-worth. lose that and then they don't care about themselves and subsequently their house and their neighborhood.

people need to pick themselves up by the boot-straps and get with the program.

[madmj]

Originally Posted by pittsburgheer

as for the south oakland litter problem and student housing:
the students know they are there for a finite amount of time and feel that it is ok to litter because it's not their neighborhood...only a temporary one. this is no excuse and shows the lack of "class" from a segment of the student body.

the same goes for renters in south squirrel hill...trash in the yards...on the streets. truly deplorable.

the point is: people need to take ownership of their surroundings and then they will take better care of their environment.

people do this all the time to varying degrees...for example: rent a car and if the floor mats get a little muddy....oh well. if you buy a new car and get it gets muddy....you take it to the car wash and clean it up.

take ownership....put your money where your mouth is and people take care of it. this could be a reason why government hand-outs don't work. they make people dependent on others and they lose thier self-worth. lose that and then they don't care about themselves and subsequently their house and their neighborhood.

people need to pick themselves up by the boot-straps and get with the program.

Great points!

I think taking ownership is definitely an issue. Monkey see Monkey do.

In Los Angeles when I first moved there I was blown away at their 'system' of making left turns in traffic after the light turns red. It is a custom that everybody accepts to allow at least 2-3 cars to turn left after the light has turned green. I couldn't believe that people did this, but it happens all over the city. After a month I was doing the same thing. It's the best example I could come up with.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by madmj

In Los Angeles when I first moved there I was blown away at their 'system' of making left turns in traffic after the light turns red. It is a custom that everybody accepts to allow at least 2-3 cars to turn left after the light has turned green. I couldn't believe that people did this, but it happens all over the city. After a month I was doing the same thing. It's the best example I could come up with.

You'll be blown away by the "Pittsburgh left". Here you'll routinely be cut off by not one but TWO opposing vehicles that will turn left in front of you the moment the light turns green. I've never experienced this sort of arrogance on the roads anywhere else I've lived. It's fun blaring your horn at them though!

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

You'll be blown away by the "Pittsburgh left". Here you'll routinely be cut off by not one but TWO opposing vehicles that will turn left in front of you the moment the light turns green. I've never experienced this sort of arrogance on the roads anywhere else I've lived. It's fun blaring your horn at them though!

If those cars didn't turn left, then they'd likely remain stuck at the light after it turns red again.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

If those cars didn't turn left, then they'd likely remain stuck at the light after it turns red again.

And all the cars behind them would be stuck because the car making a left would be blocking them from going straight.

Nobody would get anywhere, including SteelCityRising if he were stuck behind a car that needed to make a left turn. LOL

[BettyTheHun]

I was on the southside walking down the street. This guy driving threw a can/cup out his window. There's a cop behind him that sees this, but he turns his head and pretends like he didn't see it. Since I was buzzed (normally I don't talk to cops), I said to the cop "Hey he just littered". The cop told me to shut up. Lesson learned again.

[steindle]

Originally Posted by Hopes

And all the cars behind them would be stuck because the car making a left would be blocking them from going straight.

Nobody would get anywhere, including SteelCityRising if he were stuck behind a car that needed to make a left turn. LOL

Yeah, the "Pittsburgh Left" is not specific to Pittsburgh, much the same way that the "Pittsburgh parking chair" is also common in Boston, Baltimore, Philly, etc. The common theme: these are all relatively dense Northeastern cities that were built in a time before cars, and -- try as they might -- can't ever be as optimized for cars as Western and Southern cities. (And thank God for that, because those cities are so devoid of people on the street that they look post-apocalyptic.)

The "Pittsburgh(/Boston/Baltimore/Philly) Left" is not the result of people being "arrogant" at all -- it's a well-understood social convention that serves an important purpose. Without it, one person attempting to take a left onto 18th from Carson Street would literally stop traffic for hours. I encourage people to do it as a courtesy to them and the people in back of them.