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Old 04-17-2011, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
7,541 posts, read 10,215,315 times
Reputation: 3510

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Quote:
Originally Posted by simetime View Post
Tell that to the people that had to move

That's part of urban renewal.

The lower hill project of the 1950s was larger than most, and came down all at one time- that makes it a bit remarkable.

But lots of folks were displaced with the razing of St. Clair Village, most of Broadhead and Arlington Heights, the "new jack city" hi-rises in the middle of East Liberty, the gentrification on the South Side which caused plenty of landlords to take properties off the Section 8 rolls, etc.

Nothing stays the same, the only constant is change.

The Lower Hill would have certainly changed, and probably not immediately for the good, had the Arena not been built. Had Allegheny Center not been built, the department stores and other commerce wouldn't have stayed the same over there, people still would have gone to the suburban malls instead of shopping at Boggs and Buhl or the other stores that came down.

There is a lot to be said for nostalgia and remembering how things used to be, but they were going to change even if they hadn't changed the way they did.
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Old 04-17-2011, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Kittanning
4,692 posts, read 8,998,123 times
Reputation: 3668
Quote:
Originally Posted by stburr91 View Post
Yes, and in 50 years we'll read about how someone misses the sound of gunfire, and the sight of trash blowing down the streets of old East Liberty. Are you saying we shouldn't redevelopment East Liberty because some people are being displaced?
Where do I begin? A neighborhood belongs to the residents. It was wrong of the city government to take the homes from property owners in the Lower Hill and sell it to redevelopers.

From many accounts, the Lower Hill pre-demolition was a vibrant neighborhood. It just wasn't the sterile suburb that the city leaders envisioned as the "city of the future."

I am shocked that people are defending 1950s city planning theories -- which practically killed our city.

Urban renewal is drastically different today, for good reason. We don't bulldoze neighborhoods or practice eminent domain (at least, I hope not). Urban renewal happens today in neighborhoods like Lawrenceville and East Liberty, by keeping the historic building stock in place and restoring it, rather than bulldozing the whole place and starting over. Also, the original residents become involved in the change, rather than thrown out of the neighborhood.

Last edited by PreservationPioneer; 04-17-2011 at 02:17 PM..
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Old 04-17-2011, 02:29 PM
 
Location: United States
12,390 posts, read 7,056,420 times
Reputation: 6134
Quote:
Originally Posted by alleghenyangel View Post
I am shocked that people are defending 1950s city planning theories -- which practically killed our city.
The city planning had nothing to do with Pittsburgh almost dieing. It was the collapse of the steel industry that almost killed the city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alleghenyangel View Post
Urban renewal is drastically different today...
And in 50 years, it will be different than it is today.
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Old 04-17-2011, 02:30 PM
 
4,684 posts, read 4,557,847 times
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AA - Thanks for that, I'd never seen pics of any of those buildings before. Great shame to lose some of those - whatever the pros and cons of the Renaissance renewal projects, from a purely architectural point of view it was sheer vulgar vandalism.
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Old 04-17-2011, 02:38 PM
 
20,273 posts, read 32,907,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stburr91 View Post
Not really, it wouldn't be different than any of the other run down parts of the city, and in need of major redevelopment. The redevelopment in the 60's served/ is serving it's purpose, it was the right thing to do.
I think it would have been like the South Side by now, not run down anymore.

This redevelopment was basically just a disaster. It took a large portion of land in a prime location and turned it into mostly a parking lot for decades. That is doubly bad in that it is a low-value use and also encourages automobile commutes.
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Old 04-17-2011, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Kittanning
4,692 posts, read 8,998,123 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stburr91 View Post
The city planning had nothing to do with Pittsburgh almost dieing. It was the collapse of the steel industry that almost killed the city.
There were many, many other factors at play, which conspired to kill the city, and other big American cities (especially in the Rust Belt), long before the steel industry was having issues.

There was white flight. There was the suburbanization of our cities. There was the highway system. There was the automobile. There were disastrous urban renewal projects which destroyed urban neighborhoods. These problems (and many more) began the decline of most American cities.

Saying Pittsburgh declined because of the failing steel industry is like saying Detroit declined because of the failing American Auto industry. It's only a piece of the puzzle. For example, Detroit had serious problems that were completely unrelated to the auto industry that have had a major role in its decline.

Pittsburgh has had a population decline since 1950. The city lost 72,000 people in the 1950s alone. That was long before the steel industry died.
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Old 04-17-2011, 02:40 PM
 
20,273 posts, read 32,907,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stburr91 View Post
The Hill district was a very poor and dieing area before Pittsburgh went into major decline, had it not been redevelopment in the 60's, it would've surely went further into decline.
How could it be worse than a parking lot? And I think it is likely the surrounding parts of the Hill and Bluff were made worse, not better, by turning the Lower Hill into a parking lot.
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Old 04-17-2011, 02:42 PM
 
20,273 posts, read 32,907,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h_curtis View Post
Look at the beautiful buildings in East Liberty, Friendship and Highland Park and what happened to those areas?
Urban redevelopment also trashed East Liberty, as well as the North Side.

The neighborhoods that were largely untouched, like the South Side and Bloomfield, ended up much better off. I don't think that is a coincidence.

Last edited by BrianTH; 04-17-2011 at 02:52 PM..
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Old 04-17-2011, 02:44 PM
 
20,273 posts, read 32,907,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stburr91 View Post
You are forgetting that the redevelopment of the Hill District brought in a lot of tax dollars to the City over the years.
Parking is a relatively low value use. I'll bet you far, far more tax dollars per acre are being generated by the neighborhoods that weren't flattened.
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Old 04-17-2011, 02:45 PM
 
4,684 posts, read 4,557,847 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alleghenyangel View Post
There were many, many other factors at play.
It's a thing about Pittsburgh and steel which has often struck me - the collapse of steel seems to have caused such a psychic shock to the region, looming so large in collective memory, that it blots out all else. But of course you're right, American cities were hit from all sides in the late 20th c. - the fall of steel in Pgh no doubt was catastrophic but it wasn't the only reason for city-rot.
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