Real Estate Agent or Agency Recommendation? (Pittsburgh, Ross Township: apartment complexes, buying a home, buying)

[OniNoKen]

Hopes, I did understand. And here's where I think you're missing... When it comes to real estate, its illegal to list a house as being in municipality x when it is actually in municipality y. You can get sued for that. The reason it matters whether or not a house is in Shaler or Milvale is resale value. If you're ethical, and you advertise a house as being in Milvale, you won't get very much exposure, because people searching for houses won't include it in their search. If you're unethical, and advertise as being in Shaler, you run the risk of exposing yourself to lawsuit.

In this case, the purchaser bought the house for 155k in Milvale, and relisted at 190K after 7 years, over which time the market in Milvale actually lost a tiny amount of value, but remained mostly flat. There are not significant updates to the house. By the neighborhood comps, the house should be worth at most, 170k. But in Shaler, its worth... 185k and a good buy, again, based on market metrics. So by misrepresenting the municipality, they're inflating the price of the home.

The only reason I was exposed to it is because they listed the house as being in Shaler, and that's why my real estate agent found it. Further more, the milvale house will not appraise at Shaler values, the comps just don't exist in Milvale. The difference in values was almost 20,000 dollars. I just don't have the scratch to make up that much difference in value.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by OniNoKen

Hopes, I did understand. And here's where I think you're missing... When it comes to real estate, its illegal to list a house as being in municipality x when it is actually in municipality y. You can get sued for that. The reason it matters whether or not a house is in Shaler or Milvale is resale value. If you're ethical, and you advertise a house as being in Milvale, you won't get very much exposure, because people searching for houses won't include it in their search. If you're unethical, and advertise as being in Shaler, you run the risk of exposing yourself to lawsuit.

In this case, the purchaser bought the house for 155k in Milvale, and relisted at 190K after 7 years, over which time the market in Milvale actually lost a tiny amount of value, but remained mostly flat. There are not significant updates to the house. By the neighborhood comps, the house should be worth at most, 170k. But in Shaler, its worth... 185k and a good buy, again, based on market metrics. So by misrepresenting the municipality, they're inflating the price of the home.

The only reason I was exposed to it is because they listed the house as being in Shaler, and that's why my real estate agent found it. Further more, the milvale house will not appraise at Shaler values, the comps just don't exist in Milvale. The difference in values was almost 20,000 dollars. I just don't have the scratch to make up that much difference in value.

I find it hard to believe that the agent listed it as Shaler. If indeed he/she did, I would report it to his broker of record. Most agents would not do that.

[gg]

Originally Posted by Copanut

I find it hard to believe that the agent listed it as Shaler. If indeed he/she did, I would report it to his broker of record. Most agents would not do that.

It does happen, but very rarely. When it happens, it isn't just a mistake either. When you list a property in the computer, it isn't like you can have some slip of the pen. There are agents that might try and pull a fast one, but like I said, it is very rare. The Millvale/Shaler thing, would be a perfect place to pull the fast one.

[robrobrob]

I think 5 school districts are too many to look at. I would pick a direction (ex. North of the city) and then start with at most 2 or 3 school districts.

I would think a good realtor would be able to tell you if what you want is doable for a district. And realtors do mislabel houses all the time. The worst happens in the city, where the neighborhoods are well defined but not commonly known. A lot of times, "Squirrel Hill" homes are actualy in Swisshelm Park or even Greenfield.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by OniNoKen

Hopes, I did understand. And here's where I think you're missing... When it comes to real estate, its illegal to list a house as being in municipality x when it is actually in municipality y. You can get sued for that.

A Millvale house is still in Shaler school district. It's rather common for houses to be listed under the school district when there is a township by the same name. Yeah, partly to draw buyers, but many buyers who are familiar with an area aren't concerned with the technicality.

Originally Posted by OniNoKen

The reason it matters whether or not a house is in Shaler or Milvale is resale value.

That's what I'm trying to explain to you. It doesn't affect resale value if the neighborhood has a split through the middle of it. All houses in the neighborhood will be priced the same. It doesn't matter if a house is two blocks into Milvale or two blocks into Shaler if it's the same neighborhood. People care more about the type of neighborhood than they do the technical municipality. For example, a house can be in Shaler but still be a 100 year old housing development. Someone who wants a more modern house won't buy it. Alternately a house can be in Millvale but be in a modern housing development with the Shaler border going through that neighborhood---all of those houses will be priced the same regardless of the municipality.

Originally Posted by OniNoKen

By the neighborhood comps, the house should be worth at most, 170k. But in Shaler, its worth... 185k and a good buy, again, based on market metrics. So by misrepresenting the municipality, they're inflating the price of the home.

Shaler is a vast township. The neighborhood you were considering was right near Millvale. It won't have the same comparables as houses in Shaler that are a few miles away. If half the houses in the neighborhood are Millvale and the other half of the houses are in Shaler, all of the houses will be priced the same. The prices of houses are influenced by being near borders. A Millvale house near the Shaler border will be worth more than a Millvale house in the heart of Millvale, and a Shaler house near the Millvale border will be priced less than a house in the heart of Shaler. What dictates it more is the type of neighborhood. A neighborhood with more modern houses will be priced better than a neighborhood with 100 year old houses.

Originally Posted by OniNoKen

The only reason I was exposed to it is because they listed the house as being in Shaler, and that's why my real estate agent found it. Further more, the milvale house will not appraise at Shaler values, the comps just don't exist in Milvale. The difference in values was almost 20,000 dollars. I just don't have the scratch to make up that much difference in value.

Pittsburgh's real estate market is much different from other regions of the country. Houses aren't priced with comparables on the same street or even in the same neighborhood. Sometimes houses have comparables in different municipalities---especially houses near the borders.

Your real estate agent should have know where the house was located, regardless of how it was listed. I'm sorry to tell you, but SHE participated in trying to fool you. Any Pittsburgher who has lived in the North Hills for a significant period of time could tell you where a house is located. It's a real estate agent's job to know this. That's why I suspect the house must be in a neighborhood where the border goes right through the middle.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

The Millvale/Shaler thing, would be a perfect place to pull the fast one.

Yep. It can easily happen anywhere there is a school district by the same name as a township.

Shaler/Millvale, Shaler/Etna, Shaler/Reserve, Fox Chapel/O'Hara, Fox Chapel/Indiana, Fox Chapel/Aspinwall, North Hills/West View

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Copanut

I find it hard to believe that the agent listed it as Shaler. If indeed he/she did, I would report it to his broker of record. Most agents would not do that.

When it's the name of a school district, it's a grey area that's hard to prove foul. For example, homes are often listed as "North Hills" for houses in Ross Township. Add into it the zip code factor and it gets easier to claim it was merely an error. Think of how many places in the greater North Hills that have Pittsburgh zip codes, but they're not located in Pittsburgh. The same applies to Millvale. There are many houses in Shaler Township with Millvale zip codes, but they're still in Shaler Township.

I still believe any agent worth her job should have known, regardless of how the listing agent listed it. But Oni is changing her story anyway. When she first posted her thread, it was clear that she thought she was looking at a house located in Millvale. She never indicated that she thought she was looking at a Shaler house.

[Hopes]

For example:

This house is listed on Zillow for 95k. It's technically located in Millvale but it's in a housing development where almost all of the houses are in Shaler.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/93-Convent-Ave-Pittsburgh-PA-15209/11329238_zpid/#{scid=hdp-site-map-bubble-address}

This house is not going to be worth less money than the houses next to it simply due to municipality.

[OniNoKen]

Originally Posted by Copanut

I find it hard to believe that the agent listed it as Shaler. If indeed he/she did, I would report it to his broker of record. Most agents would not do that.

We did report it to their broker. As for the rest, yes, it was done intentionally. I found no culpability with my agent as they were the one who caught the falsification while we were writing up the offer. They did so through an Allegheny County website, I don't have the link for it.

As for the rest about comps and municipalities, and so on, my recent although somewhat limited experience suggests otherwise. I'm working with Howard Hanna, who I am told is far and away the largest firm in the region. Our agent has a good track record, and came well recommended. So when they tell me that the house being on record as being in milvale will affect the resale value, and websites like zillow confirm what they are telling me, I find myself inclined to listen to them.

Anyhow, apologies for the thread jacking. My recontamination stands; Howard Hanna North Hills office, Nikki Tominac. Tell her Ken sent you.

[Hopes]

Nothing you are saying matches what you posted in your Millvale thread. You clearly knew you were looking at a Millvale house when you went there.

Originally Posted by OniNoKen

We found a house in amongst several single family homes in Milvale, and the street seemed nice enough, but we're not from Pittsburgh, and know little about the area.

Originally Posted by OniNoKen

I wonder if we're actually looking in Milvale then. Its a large single family home on top of a hill on a street of decent looking SFR's. I -think- we got to it by taking babcock off of McKnight, but I've been driving every which way in Pittsburgh over the past couple of days so I could be wrong.

Originally Posted by OniNoKen

Hi there! Just getting back to the forum... We ended up placing an offer on the house in milvale, but unfortunately the deal went south. It seemed like a nice little find. Oh well, back to the drawing board.