Produce Terminal to be reduced in size (bars, health)

[gg]

Here is another view of the hot dog place. You can see it is too small to serve food. It is a ready made food place with a coke machine. It is a total joke Brian. Like I have said, I have been there a few times. I am not eating at that place. Not worth the money and doesn't utilize the river at all. Has a view of the old Hilton. Maybe that is what you call great? We can just agree to disagree and move on.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

And that hasn't been what we were discussing, at least since Mathman agreed he wasn't talking about the riparian buffer zone.

It's close enough. The riparian buffer will have a sidewalk. A greenspace should be maintained along the shores so there is a continuous park and that allows people to walk along the river banks. River Walk in San Antonio has a much closer and more intimate connection to the water, but I'd like to see a Pittsburgh version of that.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Who said their should be NO cafes, shops, and restaurants adjacent to Three Rivers Park?

The actual issue is you are objecting to ONE stretch of Three Rivers Park having apartment buildings adjacent. And if you are asking for examples of riverfront districts with some apartment buildings adjacent, then as I noted, there gazillions of such districts around the world.

I might note the riparian buffer plan allows for concessions.

What I'm asking for is a denser collection of shops, restaurants, and pubs. Given its backdrop, the North Shore would have been ideal. So in that sense they blew it. The project in The Strip, if it is just housing along the shore, is more of the same. The area along the shore could make for a great entertainment district with shopping and dining along the shore. What the North Shore is, along the river, looks more like a nature preserve. That prime real estate behind it could be put to better use.

Things people do in the existing parts of Three Rivers Park include: walking, biking, sitting, playing, picnicing, feeding ducks and geese, fishing, boating, kayaking, and so on.

So you are throwing in "feeding ducks and geese"? Fishing, boating, kayaking is really done all along the rivers.

You keep ignoring the fact that between the stadiums, the North Shore buildings do in fact contain restaurants/bars with outdoor seating.

Of course I can understand why you are ignoring that--following your plan didn't actually create a particularly lively zone. So since this part of the North Shore invalidates your theory, you pretend it doesn't exist.

No, the North Shore actually validates it. It has way more potential. I'm just disappointed that the The Strip project is going the same way.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

I think this would be much better, but lets face it, we might get a hot dog stand at best or another night club like Donzi's.

Cut Pittsburgh a break on this, use of the riverfronts for recreation is something that just came about in my generation.

The rivers and riverfronts were used for industry in the not too distant past.

[gg]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

Cut Pittsburgh a break on this, use of the riverfronts for recreation is something that just came about in my generation.

The rivers and riverfronts were used for industry in the not too distant past.

I know, but that property has a ton of potential. Actually it is the best piece of property left on the riverfront within walking distance to so much of what Pittsburgh has to offer. It could be amazing and that picture I posted early could be a reality. If the powers that be do something really great, Pittsburgh truly could be more of a destination. What will we actually get? Some little street that makes its way to the river and has a hotdog stand there. Will anyone from out of town even think of looking at that? Nope.

Sorry, I guess I see such potential. No railroad tracks, open area and on the best river Pittsburgh has to offer, the Allegheny. I can't help but to dream of something great, but I know that isn't welcome here. We are hotdog types and Donzi's, Tilted Kilt and Damons are considered great!

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Here is another view of the hot dog place. You can see it is too small to serve food. It is a ready made food place with a coke machine. It is a total joke Brian. Like I have said, I have been there a few times. I am not eating at that place. Not worth the money and doesn't utilize the river at all. Has a view of the old Hilton. Maybe that is what you call great? We can just agree to disagree and move on.

And besides, I'm talking about real eateries with quality food along the river banks (and yes Brian with the %*&!*# riparian buffer). Concessions...really Brian?....you think concession stands and temporary shacks is the equivalent to a strip of restaurants, cafes, and pubs? A night on the town, by the river, buying a hot dog and pop from a vending machine?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

We can just agree to disagree and move on.

Yes, let's agree to disagree on whether those are tables and chairs in your own picture.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

It's close enough.

Not according to many of the other people posting here.

Incidentally, I agree with them: it does make a difference whether a place is separated by just a sidewalk from the water's edge, or a 200' riparian buffer. I think the riparian buffer is worth doing, but I'm not going to pretend it doesn't make a difference at all.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

What I'm asking for is a denser collection of shops, restaurants, and pubs. Given its backdrop, the North Shore would have been ideal. So in that sense they blew it.

You're moving the goalposts. You originally just said you wanted bars/restaurants. Now it turns out the North Shore isn't good enough, you want something "denser".

I think you will find in the real world, it isn't so easy to wish into existence on a greenfield/brownfield something as cool as the South Side or Shadyside. Instead, the real world version of your idea is what we got in Station Square or the North Shore.

The area along the shore could make for a great entertainment district with shopping and dining along the shore. What the North Shore is, along the river, looks more like a nature preserve. That prime real estate behind it could be put to better use.

Are you SURE you aren't talking about invading the riparian buffer? Because that is the same thing on the North Shore as you are complaining about here, and if you put your Hooters and Applebees behind the riparian buffer in the Strip, it will have that same effect of a "nature preserve" toward the river.

So you are throwing in "feeding ducks and geese"?

Of course! It is a fun thing to do along rivers.

Fishing, boating, kayaking is really done all along the rivers.

But it is super-cool to be able to do it right next to Downtown.

No, the North Shore actually validates it.

No, the North Shore shows that it doesn't make any notable difference in activity levels whether behind a given stretch of the riverfront park there is a bar/restaurant or a residence or an office.

That in no way validates your claim it will make a difference. Of course I get that somehow the bars/restaurants on the North Shore aren't capturing whatever you have in your imagination, but that is because you aren't grasping that what you are imagining isn't realistic.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

Cut Pittsburgh a break on this, use of the riverfronts for recreation is something that just came about in my generation. The rivers and riverfronts were used for industry in the not too distant past.

Indeed--people actually wanting to play and live along the rivers is great. And in fact giving people a great park along the rivers Downtown fits what a lot of people want these days, and it is not like they will have trouble finding places to eat and drink as well.