You think its bad for PAT now, it's about to get A LOT WORSE! (Johnstown: incomes, shopping mall)

[CFP]

In this extensive discussion I see little mention of the biggest factor in the equation - fuel costs. Without cheap fossil fuels our whole way of life, whether that means taking the bus or driving a car, is simply going to come to an end because it's too expensive to run. At $.25-50 for a gallon of unleaded suburbia and long commutes seemed to make sense, but at $3.75 it's like a giant millstone around the neck of the economy. And to make matters worse, because so many found themselves trapped in communities that have no pedestrian marketplaces, going into debt was seen as the way around the problem of higher fuel costs. Now the economy has two millstones around its neck.

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by CFP

In this extensive discussion I see little mention of the biggest factor in the equation - fuel costs. Without cheap fossil fuels our whole way of life, whether that means taking the bus or driving a car, is simply going to come to an end because it's too expensive to run. At $.25-50 for a gallon of unleaded suburbia and long commutes seemed to make sense, but at $3.75 it's like a giant millstone around the neck of the economy. And to make matters worse, because so many found themselves trapped in communities that have no pedestrian marketplaces, going into debt was seen as the way around the problem of higher fuel costs. Now the economy has two millstones around its neck.

Those are very real concerns that not a whole lot of people want to talk about. Now that peak oil has passed this problem will not get better. My question is, what are people in rural areas going to do? These areas need big trucks to even get around in the winter and to haul things. How are people out in the middle of nowhere supposed to cope with these challenges?

[CFP]

ATC, you're right - it's definitely not easy to talk about being trapped in an unaffordable & unsustainable position.
But watching a short animated video is relatively easy so I'm including this link:
300 Years of FOSSIL FUELS in 300 Seconds

300 Years of FOSSIL FUELS in 300 Seconds - YouTube

[BrianTH]

Obviously development patterns will likely have to change--and in fact are already changing--in response to current energy cost trends. Of course vehicles which carry more passengers are inherently less energy intensive per passenger-trip, and with enough passenger trips concentrated onto common corridors you can use wires to provide the necessary energy in the form of electricity.

[CFP]

BTH, I always appreciate your optimism, but I believe a lot of social shocks will have to occur before your electric carpool scenario becomes a reality.
And to tie this into the East Liberty discussion, that is one neighborhood that is well positioned to thrive in a post peak oil world. They've got grocery and home improvement stores, the busway and the train! No need for a car in Sliberty.

[gg]

Originally Posted by CFP

BTH, I always appreciate your optimism, but I believe a lot of social shocks will have to occur before your electric carpool scenario becomes a reality.
And to tie this into the East Liberty discussion, that is one neighborhood that is well positioned to thrive in a post peak oil world. They've got grocery and home improvement stores, the busway and the train! No need for a car in Sliberty.

East Liberty is indeed in a very good position. I think the educated big money knows that have have known it for a very long time. Hence you will see the big money folks invest in their futures. The little people can get in on that action. Buy a home in that area. It is going to happen and I think it won't be all that many years from now. In 10 years that place will be different.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by CFP

BTH, I always appreciate your optimism, but I believe a lot of social shocks will have to occur before your electric carpool scenario becomes a reality.

We'll have to see. States like California and Nevada are currently passing legislation to allow testing of self-driving cars:

Google driverless cars safety bill passes in California - SlashGear

Self-driving vehicles combined with some fairly simply information technologies could allow for new, economically competitive, forms of "carpooling" (or van service, or whatever you want to call it). Off hand, I'm not sure why such developments would require "social shocks" to precede them.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Seems great progress could be made. Hope Mr. Turzai armed with research from Allegheny Institute can break up the monopoly and improve the situation for the transit riders and more importantly the tax payers that are tired of all these new taxes and bailouts from the broken system.

The bill's sponsor, Rep. Mike Turzai, R-Bradford Woods, stands by the Allegheny Institute's research, which showed that eliminating Port Authority's monopoly would be a good "first step" in improving Allegheny County's transportation system.

"The state has been continuing to bail out the Port Authority," Turzai said. "Why should anybody fear competition? We're allowing the competition to provide better transportation in Pennsylvania. The unions ... I think they're just against any change."

This is idiocy.

If you allow the private sector to compete, what would happen would be:

1. The most profitable commuter lines would be swept up by private operators, who would offer lower fare than PAT.
2. Having lost the most profitable lines, PAT would go bankrupt
3. Pitt/CMU would then either develop their own private busses for students, or else the private bus companies would begin offering these routes.
4. People on lines which do not get enough traffic to be profitable would see the total elimination of all bus service.

[CFP]

I don't believe that the typical commuter is going to give up his or her single occupancy car ride to work without some type of shock to the system. As far as most Americans are concerned having a self-directed vehicle for personal use is a God given right. People will not freely give up that way of life without some massive resistance, like blaming other people including politicians, bureaucrats, workers and pensioners.

[Blackbeauty212]

First didn't PAT receive some sort of State funds from a bill pushed by Casey for the purchase of CNG buses but PAT right so has priorities elsewhere and stated that Diesel buses preform better over the long run with Pittsburgh hilly terrain. Plus don't forget PAT locks in its price for Diesel through multi-year contracts so its not effected by Sea-sawing Gas prices that the Public is subject too.

Originally Posted by CFP

I don't believe that the typical commuter is going to give up his or her single occupancy car ride to work without some type of shock to the system. As far as most Americans are concerned having a self-directed vehicle for personal use is a God given right. People will not freely give up that way of life without some massive resistance, like blaming other people including politicians, bureaucrats, workers and pensioners.

As proven by this release Pittsburgh has a high usage of Transit by the non-working poor. I think this mainly stems from the Robust Park-n-Ride network PAT has instilled into the culture which along with the Route Cuts is also in jeopardy come Sept.

While Pittsburgh has a very strong "Car" culture....I do believe with adequate funding from all parties Local State Feds and a Robust Progress Transit Agency, Pittsburgh could be a top 8 Transit city...Simply because of its lack of employment Sprawl and with 2 (soon to be 3 with East Liberty) CBD very good public transit access...

Downtown is already a Transit Hub in every sense of the word

Oakland could use more direct express routes from around the region....Local service is plentiful.

East Liberty already has the perfect bones with the East Busway, 71, and 80's series buses serving the CBD from all directions...It too would just need some enhancing.

Keep in mind I'm talking about what we can work with now....Not pipe dreams that will never come to light anytime soon with the Politics we have in America now.