You think its bad for PAT now, it's about to get A LOT WORSE! (Pittsburgh: roach, long term)

[BrianTH]

By the way, this recent article suggests Corbett is once again going to push off discussion of a comprehensive transportation fix to next year:

Corbett says transportation funding will take backseat to budget | News | CentreDaily.com

I know pman hates it when I mention Corbett in the same sentence as the Tea Party-types, but there is really no other explanation for why Corbett would keep stalling when all these Chamber of Commerce-type Republicans are lobbying him to do something.

[Debbie1125]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

I'll stop calling him Gov DoNothing....when he actually DOES SOMETHING...Like Dedicated Transportation Funding to stop this ridiculous merry-go-round. So before you hail Do Nothing as some so of Miracle worker that "Cracked" the Union.....Keep in mind all this is only for 1yr band-aid funding...PAT will be right back in the same position next year if Do Nothing continues to ignore the problem at hand as he's done for the last 2 years...

I do not have one ounce of faith in Governor Do Nothing, to put a permanent funding fixture in place for the two largest mass transit systems in Pennsylvania.

And the rural Pennsylvanians don't realize that the people who work and are paying taxes in Philly and Pittsburgh, and the dollars that tourists bring to those two cities, some of it goes to their communities.

[pman]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

By the way, this recent article suggests Corbett is once again going to push off discussion of a comprehensive transportation fix to next year:

Corbett says transportation funding will take backseat to budget | News | CentreDaily.com

I know pman hates it when I mention Corbett in the same sentence as the Tea Party-types, but there is really no other explanation for why Corbett would keep stalling when all these Chamber of Commerce-type Republicans are lobbying him to do something.

Sure there is just not for you. I suspected that this would be a short term bailout. The remaining question to.me is whether the state will try for similar concessions in the upcoming septa contract. While there is support for dedicated funding there's also support for making septa workers contribute a healthy amount to pensions and healthcare. That said I'm not a supporter of corbetts lack of initiative in tackling tough questions like transportation and state pensions. It was expected nothing would happen until after elections when mkt was postponed last time.there has also.been a slight change inrhetoric with Corbett now saying he supports funding for pat since they've addressed spending.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by pman

Sure there is just not for you.

Which would be?

And incidentally, if your answer is that Corbett is perpetuating a transportation funding crisis that is affecting not just transit but also roads, bridges, and every other aspect of transportation funded by the state just so he can do some bashing of SEPTA's union too, then you are actually supporting my point.

But of course that isn't what Corbett's foot-dragging is really about. What it is really about is that the TFAC found what everyone who has ever looked seriously at the issue has found, which is that dealing with this crisis will require raising taxes and fees in some substantial way. And that is what Corbett is actually afraid of supporting. In fact, he said it himself: his reason for rejecting the TFAC's recommendations was that he didn't think we should be trying to raise new revenues in a poor economy.

And I will once again note that you have been wrong many times in your predictions about Corbett's behavior, apparently due to your inability to understand that his anti-revenue promises to the Tea Party types have in fact put him into a political no-win situation. For some strange reason you want to ignore all that, but that's what is really going on--Corbett himself has said so.

[pman]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Which would be?

And incidentally, if your answer is that Corbett is perpetuating a transportation funding crisis that is affecting not just transit but also roads, bridges, and every other aspect of transportation funded by the state just so he can do some bashing of SEPTA's union too, then you are actually supporting my point.

But of course that isn't what Corbett's foot-dragging is really about. What it is really about is that the TFAC found what everyone who has ever looked seriously at the issue has found, which is that dealing with this crisis will require raising taxes and fees in some way. And that is what Corbett is actually afraid of supporting.

And I will once again note that you have been wrong many times in your predictions about Corbett's behavior, apparently due to your inability to understand that his anti-revenue promises to the Tea Party types have in fact put him into a political no-win situation. For some strange reason you want to ignore all that, but that's what it is really going on.

How can I be wrong many times since I've never claimed to predict? Perhaps you are confusing what i hoped would happen with a prediction of what was going to happen or maube you just remember me disagreeing with. The only thing I've ever said is that Corbett is a typical politician. he doesn't give a crap about grover, you, or just about anyone. IMO, hs is trying to have it both ways...spending when he has money and being tight when he doesn't...like a lot of politicians, I'd wager he thought he'd have more money to spend by now when the economy bounced back. his failure in the first part of his term has led to him getting his agenda from the state Republican leadership. The idea that using leverage to negotiations better Contract is somehow tea party union bashing simply shoes how laughably partisan you are. No, I don't think he has been holding up on transportation funding simply to negotiate with SEPTA but I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see him use the chip now that he is in a position to, that is what political opportunism is all about. in fact, it be would foolish for him not to. Anyone who doesnt agree with your position is somehow a tea party nut. I'm sure you recall reading that it was unlikely there would be anything before the election but I guess a little honesty never got in the way of Brian's points.

The state will provide $35 million in additional funding over the coming year but Gov. Tom Corbett is committed to longer-term investment to preserve transit service here now that the authority has reduced its spending, Transportation Secretary Barry Schoch said.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...#ixzz24CtD5mSI

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by pman

How can I be wrong many times since I've never claimed to predict? Perhaps you are confusing what i hoped would happen with a prediction of what was going to happen

Well, in this thread you stated it was your "expectation" that Corbett would support transportation funding reform in the fall of 2011. I'd call that a prediction:

//www.city-data.com/forum/20620820-post33.html

And you did that explicitly in the context of rejecting the influence of the Tea Party types on Corbett. That is an excellent example of how refusing to see the truth is leading you to false "expectations".

The idea that using leverage to negotiations better Contract is somehow tea party union bashing simply shoes how laughably partisan you are.

The idea that you actually believe that Corbett has been holding up transportation funding for roads, bridges, and so on all across the state just so that he can get more concessions from PAT's union (a predicate which itself is unfounded, since there is no particular evidence PAT's union provided more concessions as a result of Corbett's foot-dragging) shows how laughably gullible you are.

Anyone who doesnt agree with your extreme position is somehow a tea party nut.

I've never said anything of the kind. In fact, I have never even said that Corbett himself is by natural inclination a Tea Party type. I have merely pointed out that his behavior on this issue has been dictated by his need to keep the favor of Tea Party types.

As for you personally, I have no idea what you think of yourself as being, although I will say that your argument that voter ID laws that do nothing to stop voter fraud are justifiable if they keep homeless people from voting demonstrates that you are at least Tea Party-curious.

I'm sure you recall reading that it was unlikely there would be anything before the election but I guess a little honesty never got in the way of Brian's points.

I recall you continually moving forward your "expectation" every time your old "expectation" proved wrong.

Edit: Also a good one:

//www.city-data.com/forum/20621690-post41.html

This is what you said then about Corbett on transportation funding:

Originally Posted by pman

if 2012 rolls around and nothing has happened, yes I will admit he didn't act as I expected.

Just don't call it a failed prediction!

Edit #2:

While I was composing my post, you edited your post to add:

No, I don't think he has been holding up on transportation funding simply to negotiate with SEPTA but I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see him use the chip now that he is in a position to, that is what political opportunism is all about.

That's fine, but what I am doing is pointing out exactly what sort of "political opportunism" he is practicing, which is to distract Tea Party types with the claim he is successfully union-bashing.

[BrianTH]

I'm mostly very pleased about the announcement, but this is still a bit worrisome:

About one-third of the state money will come from transit capital reserves while the source of the remainder is not yet determined, [Transportation Secretary Barry Schoch] said. But he said the governor is committed to funding transit.

Hopefully there is not some other party with veto power over the remaining 2/3rds who might disagree with the Governor.

[BrianTH]

More on the source issue (sorta):

Port Authority board calls off big service cuts, layoffs with unanimous vote | TribLIVE

Pennsylvania’s top transportation official said Tuesday the state is committed to providing Port Authority of Allegheny County with at least $30 million a year in added funding for years to come. But it’s not certain where the money will come from each year. “The source will change on an annual basis,” said PennDOT Secretary Barry Schoch. . . . This year, PennDOT will provide about $10 million from an account reserved for transit capital improvement projects across the state. . . . “That should get us through the first four months and give us time to look for other sources of funding,” Schoch said. Among possibilities, Schoch said bids for many highway projects have been less expensive than PennDOT anticipated, which could free up some cash. The state also will look for any excess revenue in the general fund or use federal money reserved for highway projects. Gov. Tom Corbett also is considering proposals to generate another $2.7 billion annually for transportation needs statewide, which could result in more funding for Port Authority.

So although I believe the Governor is in fact committed to the full year, it looks like only four months of funding has really been secured so far.

[captainmidnight]

So PAT will get an extra $34.5 million a year now? ($30 million from the state and $4.5 million from the county)

I wonder how that extra infusion will affect their FY14 budget. Hopefully enough they put service back at pre-2011 levels.

I like the part in the Trib article where the state made a special account just in case they had to bail PAT out. After months of Corbett saying there would be no bailout too.

[chloride1]

"And the rural Pennsylvanians don't realize that the people who work and are paying taxes in Philly and Pittsburgh, and the dollars that tourists bring to those two cities, some of it goes to their communities."

I do believe this is a significant part of the problem.