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Old 04-11-2012, 04:51 PM
 
20,273 posts, read 32,895,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman View Post
to be fair, it's easier to change development patterns than have two bus systems...one for work and an entirely different one for shopping or nightlife.
I agree we have to be realistic. Still, if I am right about more people putting a premium on not driving while in transit, and if we can invest in some technologies with very low marginal operating costs (in terms of things like labor and energy), then I could see there being the demand and economic case for a more robust off-peak and non-Downtown-centric system.
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
Then there is what might be called the opportunity cost of your time spent in transit. Young people are driving way less than they used to, and I think it is a good bet a good chunk of that is because young people would rather be doing something else with that time in transit. Specifically, a world in which almost everyone has a smartphone is a world in which time spent driving suddenly has a much higher opportunity cost.
Better yet, don't live out wherever if you work downtown then you don't have to waste much of your time at all in any type of transit. I can never see myself living more then a mile or 2 from downtown so long as I am working there.
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UKyank View Post
Better yet, don't live out wherever if you work downtown then you don't have to waste much of your time at all in any type of transit. I can never see myself living more then a mile or 2 from downtown so long as I am working there.
That's definitely preferable, but it also tends to get relatively expensive.

In any event, we were actually talking about non-commuting, off-peak usage. Of course most people spend most of their time in a triangle defined by their home, work, and main shopping area, but to the extent you do want to visit friends, try new amenities, and so forth, you need a means to do that as well.
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Old 04-13-2012, 08:57 AM
 
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From Paul Krugman's column in the NYT today; he's referring to Christie of NJ, but seems to me his point could just as well apply to Corbett of PA:

Quote:

One answer is that the governor is widely assumed to have national ambitions, and the Republican base hates government spending in general (unless it’s on weapons). And it hates public transportation in particular. Indeed, three other Republican governors — in Florida, Ohio and Wisconsin — have also canceled public transportation projects supported by federal funds. The difference, of course, is that New Jersey is a densely populated state, most of whose residents live either in Greater New York or Greater Philadelphia; given that position, public transit is the state’s lifeblood, and refusing to invest in such transportation will strangle the state’s economy.
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Old 04-13-2012, 09:13 AM
 
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And the view from the other side. Jim DeMint quoted on transportation policy in an interview publ. yesterday in Reason:

“The New Debate in the Republican Party Needs to be Between Conservatives and Libertarians” - Reason Magazine

Quote:

Transportation: We take 18 cents out of every gallon of gasoline sold and bring it up here; states fight to get it back. We could bring 3 cents up here to deal with federal roads. Let states decide, and we would have better infrastructure, spend less money, and states could make those decisions.
Seems to me the first question is whether 50 states would be capable of coordinating a national transportation network and infrastructure - or do we end up with, say, high-speed rail lines which end abruptly at the OH-PA border (OK, more likely the CA-NV border, but whatever).

The second question is what happens to anti-spending southern states like DeMint's SC, when state govts decide to simply not spend any money on transport. We don't need no stinkin rail links to Charleston's busy harbor (the fourth-busiest container port in the US, as it happens)?

The final question, most relevant to PAT, is whether in a state like PA the money left in the state's hands gets spent on rural or urban priorities - in which case, decentralization of transportation spending to the states simply becomes a new form of spoils.

But heck, give it a try, DeMint (or Corbett) - the atom bomb was an experiment too, once.
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
349 posts, read 614,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UKyank View Post
Better yet, don't live out wherever if you work downtown then you don't have to waste much of your time at all in any type of transit. I can never see myself living more then a mile or 2 from downtown so long as I am working there.

Exactly, but like Brian said, it can get expensive. I'm currently looking to move out of the 'comfort zone' and into a cheaper and less city-type setting... which means a bigger commute, since I work downtown as well.

However, it'll be by personal vehicle. Not Port Authority.
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:54 AM
 
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Obviously it would be a huge financial win for larger metros like Pittsburgh's if the feds devolved most of their transportation funding and policy down to that level (or below, but there are already planning organizations at the metro level which could handle this task). There would be coordination issues, but as long as you could form enforceable pacts between relevant jurisdictions you could probably make a lot of things work.

And in fact, I'd probably take a deal just devolving it down to the state level, despite all the current nonsense, because I really believe this is the last gasp of the anti-urban political camp in PA.

But all this is why DeMint is really making an idle threat--he knows how that would harm his political supporters, but he doesn't expect anyone to call his bluff.
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Old 04-13-2012, 03:55 PM
 
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Since this whole mess seems to have come about because the state isn't allowed to toll I-80, couldn't the state just end all maintenance on I-80, lay-off those PennDOT workers up there, and use the saved money to fund transit? BTW, there seems to be a brand-new highway somewhere in the central part of the state - somewhere between Harrisburg and Altoona - that carries less people in one day than two buses on the East Busway! I'm sure that cost a few billion $$.
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Old 04-13-2012, 04:25 PM
 
4,684 posts, read 4,555,342 times
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No need to hunt for a little-used highway in the heart of darkest central PA - the Mon Valley Expressway is just around the corner: $1.2 billion for "a catalyst for economic revitalization" which is used only by Cal U profs who prefer to live in civilization while working in the wilderness.

(OK, the article is four years old - but AFAICT no local paper has run a story since, and I very much doubt that road's use has increased very much since - certainly the Mon Valley hasn't turned out to be a model of economic revitalization).
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Old 04-13-2012, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Philly
10,220 posts, read 16,741,433 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squarian View Post
And the view from the other side. Jim DeMint quoted on transportation policy in an interview publ. yesterday in Reason:

“The New Debate in the Republican Party Needs to be Between Conservatives and Libertarians” - Reason Magazine

Seems to me the first question is whether 50 states would be capable of coordinating a national transportation network and infrastructure - or do we end up with, say, high-speed rail lines which end abruptly at the OH-PA border (OK, more likely the CA-NV border, but whatever).

The second question is what happens to anti-spending southern states like DeMint's SC, when state govts decide to simply not spend any money on transport. We don't need no stinkin rail links to Charleston's busy harbor (the fourth-busiest container port in the US, as it happens)?

The final question, most relevant to PAT, is whether in a state like PA the money left in the state's hands gets spent on rural or urban priorities - in which case, decentralization of transportation spending to the states simply becomes a new form of spoils.

But heck, give it a try, DeMint (or Corbett) - the atom bomb was an experiment too, once.
rail lines crossed borders before the feds took over so I don't see why that would be the case
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