Mon-Fayette Expressway to open on July 11, 2011

[BrianTH]

I'm sure it is true more people are working somewhere in Loudoun these days. But it can't be true all those people have walking commutes, as in fact the hyperrapid growth in traffic on the Greenway demonstrates.

I don't want to single out Loudoun, but "sprawl" isn't just about spreading people away from central cities, it is also about how people are being spread out within newly developed areas. And I very much understand there are people in Loudoun who understand this issue and are trying to make a difference, but the precise point we were discussing here is that highways (as opposed to other forms of upgraded roads and other modes of transportation) do in fact tend to encourage sprawl, and that includes tolled highways.

[Caladium]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

the precise point we were discussing here is that highways (as opposed to other forms of upgraded roads and other modes of transportation) do in fact tend to encourage sprawl, and that includes tolled highways.

Yes, I should have made it clear that I mostly agree with you as far as the whole point you were trying to make. I just wanted to stop to straighten out a few details (that were probably not important as far as the point was concerned--it's just that I have a thing about accuracy).

The way I see it, highways and toll roads play a role in encouraging sprawl, yet at the same time the sprawl would happen with or without the highways. So, in the long run I'm pro highway because without them the situation would be worse--the same amount of traffic would be stuck on 2 lane roads.

[BrianTH]

I'm something of a boulevard fan--they can provide upgraded roads without encouraging as much sprawl.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I'm something of a boulevard fan--they can provide upgraded roads without encouraging as much sprawl.

Part of the "dreamer" long-range master plan for Polish Hill includes turning Bigelow Boulevard into an ACTUAL "boulevard" of sorts with sidewalks, bike lanes, and a median that's not some ugly dueling guard rail thingy.

[FreightTrainRunning]

Bigelow was originally intended to be a scenic boulevard used to transport downtowners to the newly built Schenley Park but has devolved over the last 110 years into a dirty commuter highway.

[Herodotus]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Yeah, but I think people are asking WHY that was the plan, instead of connecting to I-68 eastward, over in Maryland. Particularly since it connects to I-68 just a few miles from I-79 in West Virginia.

And if the question is why are they building a highway in West Virginia when it would seem to make more sense to build elsewhere, it is a good bet the answer involves the late Senator Byrd.

Byrd popped into my mind as well when thinking about this. It just makes no sense for this highway not to feed into Cumberland. I wonder why the politicians in western Maryland didn't make any noise about this? It would have really been a plus for what's a fairly isolated area. I know it would likely have added to the cost because the terrain between Uniontown and Cumberland is pretty rough, but it's better to spend more and get something of value, than to spend less money, but get very little for it.

[Penguins Fan]

AFAIAC, Penn's Future is another one of those "anti-highway" bunch who hates highways, cars and suburbs.

The Mon Valley Expressway was proposed decades ago, when it would have been of greater benefit to the entire Mon Valley. I have relatives in the Mon Valley. My mother grew up there and my great uncle was mayor of Charleroi for 24 years.

As of now, the two greatest benefits of the Mon-Fayette are that it will get you to Ohiopyle faster and it provides another link to I-68 if you are headed towards Baltimore/DC/Ocean City. It will not spur economic development any more than the Beaver Valley Expressway has spurred economic development in Aliquippa. The steel mills are gone and they will not return, as has most of the other manufacturing. I must mention that I love the Beaver Valley Expressway (I-376). My mother lives 110 miles from our home in South Fayette and it makes for a great and easy trip (79, 376, Turnpike).

The most important link is the part that has not been started. Route 51 between the Liberty Tubes and Large is congested, overcrowded and painfully slow. The lack of an alternate highway between Monroeville and the western suburbs of Pittsburgh is a travesty. The Squirrel Hill Tunnel and the Fort Pitt Tunnel and Bridge are overcrowded and congested and all anyone whines about is "sprawl, sprawl", as if "sprawl" is the equivalent of malaria or the bubonic plague. "Sprawl" is a buzzword used to describe economic growth where the whiners don't want it to happen (Cranberry, Robinson, etc).

There should be a "Parkway South" to relieve Route 51 congestion with a Squirrel Hill Tunnel bypass to get tractor trailers and other thru traffic off I-376. "Greenways" ain't gonna cut it. Neither is "light rail".

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Penguins Fan

AFAIAC, Penn's Future is another one of those "anti-highway" bunch who hates highways, cars and suburbs.

It is true they aren't big fans of highways (or at least this highway), but their alternative plan had a lot of upgraded roads serving a lot of suburbs.

"Sprawl" is a buzzword used to describe economic growth where the whiners don't want it to happen (Cranberry, Robinson, etc).

At least for me, "sprawl" is more an expression about a kind of growth pattern than a location of that growth pattern. Sprawl implies higher energy costs, long commutes, increased health problems, inefficient use of natural resources, unnecessary lifestyle tradeoffs, and so on. Trying to limit sprawl doesn't need to be, and indeed can't be, anti-suburb, because existing central cities don't have enough room to accommodate more than a fraction of the people already living in suburbs. So in my view this issue is more about how our suburbs will be developed, and whether those development patterns will be sustainable.