What Eyesores Near Downtown Hurt Pittsburgh's Looks The Worst? (York: credit card, how much)

[pman]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Yeah, highways are just part of city life. I don't think they are really an eyesore, just city living.

those particular highways are definitely an eyesore. I doubt the claim they give the impression of bustling city life, many decidedly non-bustling places have highways...big deal.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Yeah, highways are just part of city life. I don't think they are really an eyesore, just city living.

Highways were originally designed for providing transportation BETWEEN cities, not WITHIN cities. Highways eventually got blasted through U.S. city centers because of the urban vision of Robert Moses and his followers, plus the people who thought we needed rapid escape routes in the event of a nuclear war.

But all that was a huge mistake, both as a matter of transportation policy (urban highways actually reduce mobility in high-density areas, and even in the event of nuclear war, the urban highways would have just jammed and left almost everyone exposed) and as a matter of land-use policy (urban highways destroyed land value not just along the route but in wide swathes on either side).

In short, there is nothing natural about highways in city centers, and building them was an unnatural decision driven by mistaken policies. And now a lot of U.S. cities are gradually undoing that mistake, and Pittsburgh should do the same.

[SammyKhalifa]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Highways were originally designed for providing transportation BETWEEN cities, not WITHIN cities. Highways eventually got blasted through U.S. city centers because of the urban vision of Robert Moses and his followers, plus the people who thought we needed rapid escape routes in the event of a nuclear war.

But all that was a huge mistake, both as a matter of transportation policy (urban highways actually reduce mobility in high-density areas, and even in the event of nuclear war, the urban highways would have just jammed and left almost everyone exposed) and as a matter of land-use policy (urban highways destroyed land value not just along the route but in wide swathes on either side).

In short, there is nothing natural about highways in city centers, and building them was an unnatural decision driven by mistaken policies. And now a lot of U.S. cities are gradually undoing that mistake, and Pittsburgh should do the same.

I think that would be a disaster in Pittsburgh because there's no bypass.

[gg]

Originally Posted by SammyKhalifa

I think that would be a disaster in Pittsburgh because there's no bypass.

True. That is the difference. There are a ton of trucks and deliveries around the city proper and they need to get through the city somehow. Sure if there was a nice beltway around the city that can handle traffic in the surrounding area, then we could rid the city of crosstown highways, but that will never happen here. Just not geographically conducive to take away the big roads.

They are eyesores as you state Brian. Just like that scrap heap in Aspinwall and so many other eyesores that are here to stay.

[Picksburg Stillers]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Highways were originally designed for providing transportation BETWEEN cities, not WITHIN cities. Highways eventually got blasted through U.S. city centers because of the urban vision of Robert Moses and his followers, plus the people who thought we needed rapid escape routes in the event of a nuclear war.

But all that was a huge mistake, both as a matter of transportation policy (urban highways actually reduce mobility in high-density areas, and even in the event of nuclear war, the urban highways would have just jammed and left almost everyone exposed) and as a matter of land-use policy (urban highways destroyed land value not just along the route but in wide swathes on either side).

In short, there is nothing natural about highways in city centers, and building them was an unnatural decision driven by mistaken policies. And now a lot of U.S. cities are gradually undoing that mistake, and Pittsburgh should do the same.

What major US cities are getting rid of their highways?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by SammyKhalifa

I think that would be a disaster in Pittsburgh because there's no bypass.

That is why I am not advocating actually eliminating the highways. It is too late (and would be too expensive) to entirely start over. But for a relatively moderate cost, you could provide the same through-capacity with much less of an impact on local aesthetics and land value.

[SammyKhalifa]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

True. That is the difference. There are a ton of trucks and deliveries around the city proper and they need to get through the city somehow. Sure if there was a nice beltway around the city that can handle traffic in the surrounding area, then we could rid the city of crosstown highways, but that will never happen here. Just not geographically conducive to take away the big roads.

They are eyesores as you state Brian. Just like that scrap heap in Aspinwall and so many other eyesores that are here to stay.

But that isn't to say that I don't think the Crosstown is ugly as sin.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

They are eyesores as you state Brian. Just like that scrap heap in Aspinwall and so many other eyesores that are here to stay.

Ah yes, the good old yinzer can't-do attitude.

In fact it IS possible to provide the same through capacity with much less value-destroying impact, and I would go so far as to predict we will take such measures at some point, even if anti-urban politics and can't-do locals delay those steps for some time.

[gg]

Originally Posted by SammyKhalifa

But that isn't to say that I don't think the Crosstown is ugly as sin.

True.

[SammyKhalifa]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

That is why I am not advocating actually eliminating the highways. It is too late (and would be too expensive) to entirely start over. But for a relatively moderate cost, you could provide the same through-capacity with much less of an impact on local aesthetics and land value.

It would be nice if all the traffic within twenty miles weren't seemingly forced to meet at a point directly above downtown.