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I wonder why other unregulated businesses seem to breed less violence. You never see pimps go to war over turf....maybe the drug trade has higher profit margins...or maybe it's the type of person involved????
Well, I'm sure some of it just has to do with the drugs themselves. Even if the dealer isn't using, users are showing up possibly strung out, behaving weirdly, making a scene -- so violence or the threat of it is "needed" to keep the customers from blowing the cover of the dealer. Plus there's the threat of someone coming to steal your money/stash. With prostitution, especially now, the amount of cash involved is smaller (a lot of it is done with credit cards through "escort" services) and the girls don't usually meet the johns at some house -- they meet them on the street where they get picked up in a car -- in a sense, johns are more likely a more stable class of people than junkies.
On the race/class issue though, I feel so many of these issues are much more class based than raced based. That's why I object to a lot of the neighborhood recommendations people give on here -- people are always recommending places that in my opinion are only different from some other area because they are mostly white, but poor white. Poor white people are, in my experience, as dysfunctional as poor black people, possibly in somewhat different ways, but screwed up nonetheless. There is certainly a larger black true underclass, but the behaviors and problems of all these groups are very similar in terms of causing trouble for other people. To me the defining feature of whether a neighborhood is going to be trouble or not is always class -- anywhere that adults, especially male adults, have nothing to do all day, trouble follows.
He says basically these guys are only in the "leadership" role for self-serving motives
Al Sharpton is a media creation (like Paris Hilton). You would be hard pressed to find 10 black people who would say..."Al Sharpton is our leader".
Sometimes people get confused and start to think that the TV-News-Media world is the same as the real world. Here's an example you may find relevent: In 99% of this country it's rare to see an openly gay couple...that's the real world. The TV world created a "the-gays-are-coming" frenzy and Bush got re-elected during an unpopular war???
An argument with Al Sharpton is an agrument with your TV set.
There's a site: citizenobserver.com. Put in your zip code, you should be able to register and get alerts. In Zone 5, E Liberty & Highland Park, surprisingly, there are no alerts at this time (bs, that).
I'm sorry, but lack of education and having babies that you don't have the wherewithal to care for are the biggest problems we face. Can't feed them, can't care for yourself, why bring kids into poverty and this world? Don't want an education, expect to be selling drugs or hooking until you go to jail or die.
It's all about choices.
What an offensive entry. Although what you say 'may' be true, that is not the hypocritical reality that we live in. I guess it's ok to bring babies into this world if you're rich and still be a bad parent, right? Look at Brittney Spears. In spite of all her proven shortcomings as a mother....we still gobble up her "art" and push her singles up to the charts. Yet a poor, Black woman who works 2 minimum wage jobs gets pregnant and it is she who is the dreg of society. Unreal.
What an offensive entry. Although what you say 'may' be true, that is not the hypocritical reality that we live in. I guess it's ok to bring babies into this world if you're rich and still be a bad parent, right? Look at Brittney Spears. In spite of all her proven shortcomings as a mother....we still gobble up her "art" and push her singles up to the charts. Yet a poor, Black woman who works 2 minimum wage jobs gets pregnant and it is she who is the dreg of society. Unreal.
Well, no one should be having babies if they aren't able to take care of them, emotionally, financially or whatever. personal responsibility=forgotten art in the world today.
I grew up in the suburbs of Pittsburgh (Mon Valley) and I personally do not feel that Pittsburgh is segregated. However, many members of my family (oh, we're Black by the way) see it differently. But also, many of them have been in the region their entire life. I have either lived or spent significant time in Morgantown, WV & Daytona Beach, FL (for college), Miami/Miami Beach, FL and Allentown, PA (the city by NJ...not the Pittsburgh neighborhood) and Grenville, SC. I've also spent weeks on end in Jamaica (with family), St. Catharine's, Ontario (for 4 months) and Jerusalem, Israel (for 6 weeks).
I feel that Black people in Pittsburgh suffer from a phenomena that many other people in the region suffer from; and that's lack of exposure. I don't know if it's the geography (living in Pittsburgh, you sort of exist in "pockets"; for example, I know people in McKeesport who have never traveled to the West End....EVER)....or if it's that Pittsburgh is not a hub for air/road travel or what. But many Western Pennsylvanians have very limited contact with anything that doesn't fall into the distinct Anglo-Saxon , high Appalachian culture. There is a joke that people say about the Mon Valley; that it's "stuck in the 70s". Perhaps all of Pittsburgh can be seen that way as well. In regards to race-relations, the 70s were still a period where you may not know about a minority culture...but you were willing to give them a chance; learn a thing or two (remember when Roots came on {I don't, I'm too young...but I've heard} and it was the highest-rated thing on. I doubt that would happen today). That's sort of how my personal experience in Pittsburgh is that when you interact with different groups; they may not be super-comfortable, and they may not know that much about your culture...but they don't shut you out. And then it improves from there. I operated in many different social circles in Pittsburgh. Plus with the combination of the progressive/liberal politics and the Western Pennsylvania friendliness...Black people have a better racial climate in Pittsburgh than they do in many other metro places.
I also think that the Black community has an image problem in Pittsburgh; you don't see a really powerful Black business community or a truly thriving Black cultural circuit. Plus there are too many people in the region who's most frequent encounter with Black people in Pittsburgh is via the news when they've committed some crime. But there are successful Black people in Pittsburgh and they function right along side with their White or Asian or Hispanic (when available) counterparts.
Now I live in South Florida. Although this place is super diverse (In Miami, White, non-Hispanic people are actually the minority!), I very rarely see the level of interaction and cooperation in between the races as I did while in Pittsburgh. In Miami, your race is who you are and how you define yourself. Sure, just about in every work setting, you are going to have White/Black/Hispanic and to a lesser extent Asian people. So on the surface...quickly you would think we are not segregated. But in reality, you have Latins who may appear to look the same....but they will have little to do with other Latins from another country (the Cubans vs. Puerto Ricans is a notorious one here). The same for West Indians. My family is from Jamaica (given I was born in good ol' McKeesport) and Haitians will find this out and start with the gripes they have about Jamaicans. . Also, I live in a very Orthodox Jewish neighborhood. On paper, we seem very diverse (North Miami Beach has no one ethnic minority)...but really, the Jews (I'm Jewish...so I'm a part of the community) keep everything that is Jewish to ourselves in a very efficient manner. For example, the police in South Florida are super, super inefficient and don't care about you until you are already shot and dying (don't believe what you see on TV, ok?)....so the Jewish community has the Shmira (from "shomer" which means 'guard') patrol to look after the Jewish streets. I have Jewish neighbors (I'll be honest...I only talk to or know my Jewish neighbors) who have lived here for 20 years and make no moves to deal with the non-Jews who live interspersed in the neighborhood. I know it sounds hopelessly racist....but in Miami....there is just no real interest. Even as a Black person, I have a really, really hard time be-friending other Black people because they are either Southern Blacks or they are West Indians. Since I don't fall into those two nice and neat groups....people don't really know how to relate to me. Which is simple absurd....but that's "diversity" for you.
(Remember, someone said the USA is not a "melting pot" but a "salad bowl". I don't who it was, but they probably lived in Miami!)
So back to Pittsburgh, I really, honestly feel that the talk about "Pittsburgh is so segregated" is a numbers thing....and a local traditions thing. Nationwide, you have a minority of Black people who venture into areas where they do not have a strong support network. For those that do step out on that limb...they will find Pittsburgh to be pretty receptive to them. Sure there are some issues....some really embarrassing ones. Like the ongoing issues that Pittsburgh area police have regarding racial profiling, etc.
True this is just my take. As a person, I see ethnic culture as just one aspect of someone's personal culture....and a lesser part of their own personal culture than, let say, where they grew up. For people who really love to live and feel their own distinct culture will probably be pretty disappointed with Pittsburgh....(hahahaha, the only "culture" you can get truly crazy and in everyone's face about is the "Steelers Culture"...LOL). No Cuban coffees or cafes that are just like they are out of Little Havana. No African-American upscale cultural mecca. No Chinatown. It is a little sad, but I don't think many Pittsburghers....especially the younger crowd...get's too caught up with race.
Well, no one should be having babies if they aren't able to take care of them, emotionally, financially or whatever. personal responsibility=forgotten art in the world today.
Ok, well then we would have a pretty low birthrate....now wouldn't we?
I'm sorry, but "being poor and having babies" is not a Black problem; and it is not the biggest problem in the Black community. Every hear of a place called Glassport? (it's on the Mon River). It's lily white and many, many junior high school girls have babies already. Also in a lot of religious communities (for sure in the religious Jewish circles...because I see that firsthand...but in others as well); birth control is not an option. I have neighbors with 10 or 12 children who are far, far from rich. In fact, some of them are living in 3 bedroom (this is including the parent's room) houses. Religious people see having children as the will of G-d; and while there are those people who also hold some disdain towards this group for their high birthrate; it's seems much, much more likely that people twist their noses up at Black women who have 3 or 4 babies. Nevermind that birth control (on the woman's end) costs money (when I didn't have health insurance...b/c pills cost around $60/month....and that was 5 years ago) and (on the man's end) many Black men have ego problems in regards to wearing condoms. Plus if the woman says no to him, she's saying no to the extra money that can provide for her and her children. It's not a total justification of their actions....but it's soooo easy to pass judgment....when you haven't been there yourself. I'm Black and my family is super broke....and I just had to fore-go dating....I mean being in ANY sort of romantic relationship until I was way into my 20s and done with college because of the expectation that Black girls love "giving it up". I do not regret it....because I did not turn up "broke and having babies"....but it was very, very painful and lonely and just plain devastating, as a young woman, to be shut out of the experience of being in a romance -- and it's a tall order and you have to be very strong emotionally. So it's wrong to pass judgment on poor women (Black or White or whatever) who are mothers and in the situation they are in.
And who is ever ready emotionally to have a child? Unless you are in your 30s or something. Even then....every new parent goes through a "culture shock" of sorts....so please.
Ok, well then we would have a pretty low birthrate....now wouldn't we?
I'm sorry, but "being poor and having babies" is not a Black problem; and it is not the biggest problem in the Black community. Every hear of a place called Glassport? (it's on the Mon River). It's lily white and many, many junior high school girls have babies already. Also in a lot of religious communities (for sure in the religious Jewish circles...because I see that firsthand...but in others as well); birth control is not an option. I have neighbors with 10 or 12 children who are far, far from rich. In fact, some of them are living in 3 bedroom (this is including the parent's room) houses. Religious people see having children as the will of G-d; and while there are those people who also hold some disdain towards this group for their high birthrate; it's seems much, much more likely that people twist their noses up at Black women who have 3 or 4 babies. Nevermind that birth control (on the woman's end) costs money (when I didn't have health insurance...b/c pills cost around $60/month....and that was 5 years ago) and (on the man's end) many Black men have ego problems in regards to wearing condoms. Plus if the woman says no to him, she's saying no to the extra money that can provide for her and her children. It's not a total justification of their actions....but it's soooo easy to pass judgment....when you haven't been there yourself. I'm Black and my family is super broke....and I just had to fore-go dating....I mean being in ANY sort of romantic relationship until I was way into my 20s and done with college because of the expectation that Black girls love "giving it up". I do not regret it....because I did not turn up "broke and having babies"....but it was very, very painful and lonely and just plain devastating, as a young woman, to be shut out of the experience of being in a romance -- and it's a tall order and you have to be very strong emotionally. So it's wrong to pass judgment on poor women (Black or White or whatever) who are mothers and in the situation they are in.
And who is ever ready emotionally to have a child? Unless you are in your 30s or something. Even then....every new parent goes through a "culture shock" of sorts....so please.
there are too many people as it is.
and i never said it was a black problem. i don't care what colors skin someone is...
if you aren't responsible enough to have a kid, you shouldn't even be having sex.
and i never said it was a black problem. i don't care what colors skin someone is...
if you aren't responsible enough to have a kid, you shouldn't even be having sex.
"Responsibility" is subjective; very much so. Being poor and black takes points away from the "responsibility factor" many people hold. Being rich and/or non-minority adds to it.
Nevermind the fact that I know of a few filthy rich people here in Miami Beach who's children are being raised by a revolving door of illegal immigrants and who get into all sorts of trouble with the law (like my one client's 17 year-old son that was arrested for driving intoxicated on the wrong side of the road). But don't worry -- they can afford good lawyers and whatever fine the courts can throw their way....it's not a problem.
Plus this is the year 2007; sex is more "mainstream" than ever. 13 year old girls are well versed in sexual positions & techniques (my ex was a school psychologist for Miami-Dade county schools...he's overheard their conversations with each other....in middle school, about oral sex). So how can you expect for younger people (and I assume it would be more of these "younger" people with the "responsibility" problems) to make an informed choice about something that is super "ho-hum" nowadays? That's not fair...and it's not real. Our "modern" culture thinks it's cute and cool for kids to "dance sexy" but they are just supposed to "say no to sex" until they are "responsible". Yeah right.
So shake your finger and head all you want at these "unfortunate breeders"; but in the meantime, their children are here, and they should get a fair shot. My own mother was in 9th grade when I was born...she wasn't even old enough to work. But she found...and later I found...resources to get me onto a positive path. Teenage pregnancy is not going away. So while people are turning their heads, innocent kids have to pay the price.
Having children comes with no requirement other than having a functioning reproductive system. It's natural to want to procreate. How are there too many people in the world with all that empty space up in Canada and out in Montana? And I thought people were whining about the population slump in Pittsburgh? I think we'll be ok for a little while.
And this is a thread on racism; so I assumed the comment was in reference to the minorities being discussed (Black people). My apologies if that was not understood correctly.
Plus this is the year 2007; sex is more "mainstream" than ever. 13 year old girls are well versed in sexual positions & techniques (my ex was a school psychologist for Miami-Dade county schools...he's overheard their conversations with each other....in middle school, about oral sex). So how can you expect for younger people (and I assume it would be more of these "younger" people with the "responsibility" problems) to make an informed choice about something that is super "ho-hum" nowadays? That's not fair...and it's not real. Our "modern" culture thinks it's cute and cool for kids to "dance sexy" but they are just supposed to "say no to sex" until they are "responsible". Yeah right.
Yeah, right. People who are not prepared to be parents should not be having sex. Period. That includes, especially but not exclusively, 13 year old children of any race. Children cannot be expected to be "responsible" about making the "decision" to have sex. Most of them can't even be responsible for getting up on time, picking up their socks, or remembering their homework. If 13 year olds are "well-versed" in sexual positions, that is the fault of their parents.
Having a child before you finish high school is a virtual guarantee of poverty for both mother and child. It's pretty easy NOT to become pregnant if you're smart enough not to have sex when you can't even be responsible for yourself, much less a helpless baby.
Yeah, right. People who are not prepared to be parents should not be having sex. Period. That includes, especially but not exclusively, 13 year old children of any race. Children cannot be expected to be "responsible" about making the "decision" to have sex. Most of them can't even be responsible for getting up on time, picking up their socks, or remembering their homework. If 13 year olds are "well-versed" in sexual positions, that is the fault of their parents.
Having a child before you finish high school is a virtual guarantee of poverty for both mother and child. It's pretty easy NOT to become pregnant if you're smart enough not to have sex when you can't even be responsible for yourself, much less a helpless baby.
Uh, I think you're totally missing my main point.
There are multiple standards in this country regarding responsibility; specifically taking responsibility for the consequences of your own actions - irregardless of who you are. It's easy to look at young poor Black (and I say "Black" because the thread is on racism) women who have children out of wedlock and say "Bad mother, bad mother". The truth is, for every 2 poor Black teenagers mothers who have children....there is 1 that gets by just fine. More than fine. I know of 5 Black women (not including my Mother) personally who had children as teenagers and either went on to college or are working as professionals. In fact, one of my managers is a Black woman who had 3 children by the time she was 20 and has an MBA in International Business from Florida International University (one of the best programs in the nation -- check U.S. News). This does not happen all the time....or even most of the time. But I'm sorry, I think the toughest single "type" of spirit in the United States lives in the Black American woman; followed very closing by Hispanic women. Because in spite of the bad rep and the constant uphill battles...they do what they need to do.
Having sex and being smart are not correlated -- negatively or positively, or in any other way. You have valedictorians who are not virgins and learning disabled folks who are virgins. I mean I came out of high school 10 years ago, and I remember all about who was sleeping around and who wasn't....maybe other adults are forgetting their high school days or something? There were plenty of White cheerleaders from good homes who were 16 and not virgins. But they could be sneaker about it because they had cars and could drive and "park" places (I had a car too...but I wasn't "into" that) when kids from the Projects needed to fool around at home. And sorry for being totally improper here, but in college, I had a friend from NJ (from Summit...very well off area) who had been pregnant twice. Yet didn't have any kids in tow (so figure that out). Medicare/Medicad doesn't cover those type of procedures....for sure.
Sorry, but I don't really keep quiet in regards to blanket stereotypes that just take things at surface value. Teenage sex is a universal problem. And with age and money you don't get automatic responsibility, ok? If anything, you get the type of responsibility that is totally misguided -- for every poor teenage mother out there raising their child they best they can; you have some upper-middle class or rich family shelling out the money and bailing their kids out of trouble....time and time again. I worked with an accountant that lived in a very posh area of Ft. Lauderdale. His son was 19 with no H.S. diploma, no GED, and no job. Would get picked up by the cops at least every 6 months. Was dating a 15 year old that looked like she could double as a prostitute on the weekends (no class). Yep, they had a lawyer on retainer...so everything could be taken care of as soon as it happened. But no one is criticizing these type of people for breeding. In fact, it's the all-American family basically.
Raising a child may take money....but the main thing is love and support. Money can't buy that and age doesn't guarantee that. I would not trade the situation I was born into for anything....just like I'm sure that many teenage mothers would like to be cut a break for once in their life (in comparison to the rich people in this country who get breaks for their mistakes all the time)
{Hmmm....apology to the mods here. My intent is not a personal attack...on my behalf at least....to anyone. But racism/segregation is such a volatile subject...if it was not, then no one would talk about it. Again, sorry if anyone is rubbed the wrong way and hopefully we can move back to discussing race issues in Pittsburgh in general :-) }
Last edited by MissShona; 10-05-2007 at 05:06 PM..
Reason: apology for potential misunderstandings of tone
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. Also, I live in a very Orthodox Jewish neighborhood. On paper, we seem very diverse (North Miami Beach has no one ethnic minority)...but really, the Jews (I'm Jewish...so I'm a part of the community) keep everything that is Jewish to ourselves in a very efficient manner. For example, the police in South Florida are super, super inefficient and don't care about you until you are already shot and dying (don't believe what you see on TV, ok?)....so the Jewish community has the Shmira (from "shomer" which means 'guard') patrol to look after the Jewish streets. I have Jewish neighbors (I'll be honest...I only talk to or know my Jewish neighbors) who have lived here for 20 years and make no moves to deal with the non-Jews who live interspersed in the neighborhood. I know it sounds hopelessly racist....but in Miami....there is just no real interest. Even as a Black person, I have a really, really hard time be-friending other Black people because they are either Southern Blacks or they are West Indians. Since I don't fall into those two nice and neat groups....people don't really know how to relate to me. Which is simple absurd....but that's "diversity" for you.
