Debt Crisis Impact in Pittsburgh (Republic: for sale, place to live, move to)

[gg]

Just to be clear, when I use the term conservative, that would include being fiscally responsible. bush and obama are in no way fiscal conservatives. If you disagree with that, all I can say is you might want to start reading on the matter. Have a look at that nice military budget that both have in place for starters.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Brain I can tell this is a subject that I am not going to see your way. Obama and Eisenhower in a fiscal responsibility comparison and you feel they can be compared? I can't get into a discussion here on this subject. Believe what you like.

You can ignore this if you like, but Bartlett (and others making the same argument) have a very good point. Eisenhower of course did not inherit an economy in a deep recession. But he did the right thing given his economic circumstances by refusing to cut taxes and continuing to pay down the WWII debt, while also investing heavily in U.S. infrastructure.

These days, we are nowhere near Eisenhower levels of taxation or spending on infrastructure, and it is true Obama isn't proposing getting all the way back to those levels. But he is proposing moving in those directions.

And I really don't think you can overlook Clinton in all this. Obama is similarly advocating a move back toward something like Clinton's balance of spending and taxation policies, and again we know that such policies produced an actual budget surplus during the expansionary part of the fiscal cycle.

Again, I do think it is fair to point out that while Obama is proposing we move in the same direction as Eisenhower and Clinton, he isn't proposing going all the way back to the same policies (not even Clinton's, let alone Eisenhower's). But that in a way is another demonstration of his fundamental conservatism--Obama is all about incremental, gradual changes, not going for big disruptive changes.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Have a look at that nice military budget that both have in place for starters.

Again, I think you have to look at the circumstances and history to understand where Obama is heading.

Obama inherited a situation in which the United States was actively fighting in two wars, and spending on those wars is a very large part of the increase in the military budget under Bush. Again, because Obama is not a hasty guy, he is taking his time winding down those two wars. But he is in fact in the process of doing that.

Meanwhile, he kept on Secretary Gates precisely because Gates was willing to help him out on setting a long-term policy of controlling basic military spending. Once again, it is very helpful to look at the Clinton example: Clinton faced constant opposition to downsizing military spending, but he achieved that goal in the long run merely by keeping military spending from growing as fast as the overall economy. Obama is trying to do the exact same thing, which is really the only way to make it work in our political system (where military spending is used as a major source of patronage and pork-barrel projects).

Edit: Here is a chart of inflation-adjusted per capita U.S. military spending based on projections from Obama's FY2010 budget proposal:



Taking out interest-payments, you can see what he is trying to do with outlays. In the FY2011 budget deal and in his recent debt ceiling proposals, he has supported further long-term defense spending cuts. Again, he isn't going to try to do all this overnight, but the direction he wants to go is clear.

[gg]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

You can ignore this if you like,..

Best we look at the impacts on Pittsburgh as the title said. We would get no where. I am a true fiscal conservative that is registered democrat and view things differently than others. I don't do a credit card life as most do and don't feel governments should live that way. We seem to be Greece on a larger scale. Hope we can find a way out, but things don't look good.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

I don't do a credit card life as most do and don't feel governments should live that way.

As long as their borrowing rates are reasonable, governments should run higher deficits during recessions and pay back that extra debt during times of full economic utilization. There isn't a one-size-fits-all answer to how government budgets should be structured.

We seem to be Greece on a larger scale. Hope we can find a way out, but things don't look good.

If we were Greece on a larger scale, it would show up in our government's borrowing rates, just as it did with Greece. In fact the opposite is true--our borrowing rates are at historic lows.

I'm not saying we don't need to get control of our long-term deficits. But a lot of confusion is caused by not keep the short-term and the long-term distinct.

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by WILWRadio

If Congress and the President are unable to agree to a plan to raise the debt ceiling and or cut taxes or raise taxes or any combination thereof, and the August 2 deadline comes and goes can anyone give me some idea as to what businesses or government entities in the Pittsburgh area will be impacted?

But it seems for you, the essential question is...will this impact a potential move from KC to Pittsburgh?

It seems to me that if you aren't happy in KC...than Pittsbugh would be better...but whatever happens federally will effect both the same. Staying where you're at to 'ride it out' might be a very, very, long ride indeed.

Seems better to just plan a move to Pittsburgh...since it seems to be the place you want to be anyways...the rest will work itself out the same way regardless of where you're at...

Unless, of course, you are incredibly strapped, and even that isn't possible...

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Under Obama we are still actively fighting in Afghanistan, occupying Iraq, in a full scale war with Libya, engaging in drone attacks (and who knows what else) in Pakistan and Yemen, and are gearing up for a war with Iran. Obama is just as much as a war-monger as Bush so I don't buy for a minute that he is attempting to wind down war in any way or decrease our military budget.

But this is a Pittsburgh forum so I'll just leave it at that.

[Picksburg Stillers]

Neither side is proposing real spending cuts. They are using an accounting trick called baseline budgeting. What they are proposing is cutting projected future increases in spending. So instead of say a 10% increase in spending over the next 10 years, there will only be an 8% increase in spending. Well, spending is still going up either way, and the deficit and national debt are still growing albeit not quite as fast. Any plan that doesn't address defense spending and entitlements i.e. Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid is not a serious plan. We could gut every other federal program and still not have enough tax revenue to pay for those. The only two presidential candidates I have any faith in trying to get this changed are Gary Johnson and Ron Paul, and neither one has any chance of getting the nomination. I just hope that reality starts to creep in for some people before we end up in the situation of Greece. The national debt is now 100% of GDP up from 62% in 2007 and still rising.

[Mr. Mon]

The whole "he wasn't really a conservative" argument has gone the way of the No True Scotsman Fallacy. Brian has done a fantastic job of explaining what is happening in the House and how we got into this mess by ignoring basic economic principals and blindly following a radical ideology, but yet the replies are, "libs this, true conservative that."

A fiscal conservative - as well as anyone with a high school diploma should - realizes that you must have a revenue stream in order to spend and that tax cuts do not automatically pay for themselves, especially in a time of unprecedented spending. And the past decade has been a doozey when it comes to spending. Also, the Republican demand that that tax increases and cuts to defense spending is beyond reckless considering that defense accounts for nearly 50% of discretionary spending and taxes are the lowest they have been in 60 years. The cuts they are demanding will directly negatively impact the middle and working class, will cut personal disposable income and further drag down the economy.

The White House seems to be playing a big game of rope-a-dope here. They have offered cuts that even Bush II would considered draconian and the House Republicans have turned down every single offer. Cantor and his crowd are being exposed as the uncompromising ideologues that they are and it is going to bite them hard come next year. Notice Romney has seemed to drop off the face of the planet during this debate. He knows the Obama is right on this issue but his primary chances are through if he says so.

[WILWRadio]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

But it seems for you, the essential question is...will this impact a potential move from KC to Pittsburgh?

It seems to me that if you aren't happy in KC...than Pittsbugh would be better...but whatever happens federally will effect both the same. Staying where you're at to 'ride it out' might be a very, very, long ride indeed.

Seems better to just plan a move to Pittsburgh...since it seems to be the place you want to be anyways...the rest will work itself out the same way regardless of where you're at...

Unless, of course, you are incredibly strapped, and even that isn't possible...

I suspect the impact will be felt differently in areas depending upon the amount of Federal employees in each area. KC has a lot and many such as those that work at several IRS facilities are likely to be deemed expendable at least for a short to medium period of time.

I am tied down here until at least next sometime next year. Finances are part of the problem but also another commitment that I have that has to be seen through completion before I can make any kind of move either here or elsewhere. I also have a house to sell and that will take some time. Thankfully it is a cheap fixer upper and those are selling reasonably fast even here.

I have had two more road rage incidents this week. In both cases people were tailgating and then deliberately tried running me off the road. I am sick of tKC and the psychopathic behavior found in a lot of the people.