Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Pennsylvania > Pittsburgh
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-07-2011, 09:02 PM
 
4,684 posts, read 4,571,445 times
Reputation: 1588

Advertisements

Central Falls bankruptcy means a grim present for the 'city with a bright future' | Business | The Guardian

This sounds rather too familiar for comfort:

"What makes Central Falls particularly worrying is that the financial crisis is only a secondary factor in its collapse. This city's problems have been decades in the making and stem from a pension burden created for baby boomers who were promised far more than Central Falls – and many other US cities – can now afford."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-07-2011, 09:33 PM
 
20,273 posts, read 33,003,811 times
Reputation: 2911
A bankruptcy for the City of Pittsburgh might be its least bad option for dealing with its legacy costs. Problem is that to do that, it would need the state's permission.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2011, 09:54 AM
 
4,684 posts, read 4,571,445 times
Reputation: 1588
The understated language here (p. 15, "Act 47 Issues") is rich:

http://pelcentral.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/MAGNY-Act-47-presentation-02112011.pdf (broken link)

Quote:
Challenges of the Act 47 Process
– Recovery time period uncertain
– Legacy costs often extremely high – debt, pensions, health care
– Continuing population and economic decline of municipality
– Adjacent municipalities often unwilling to cooperate and/or
consolidate with their distressed neighbor
– Municipal officials’ compliance can be difficult
– Difficulty effecting Act 47 collective bargaining contract changes
“Catch 47”
– Revenue/Taxation
• Municipal boundaries v. economic boundaries
• School district participation is critical
Oh yes indeedy-bob with bells on.


AFAICT, the pertinent section of Act 47 for bankruptcy is as follows:

http://www.cityofsharon.net/PDF/Other/Act47.pdf

Quote:
Subchapter D. Application of Federal Law
Section 261. Filing municipal debt adjustment under Federal law.
(a) Authorization. – In the event one of the following conditions is present, a municipality is hereby
authorized to file a municipal debt adjustment action pursuant to the Bankruptcy Code (11 U.S.C. 101
et seq.):
16
(1) After recommendation by the plan coordinator pursuant to section 241(6).
(2) Imminent jeopardy of an action by a creditor, claimant or supplier of goods or services which is
likely to substantially interrupt or restrict the continued ability of the municipality to provide
health or safety services to its citizens.
(3) One or more creditors of the municipality have rejected the proposed or adopted plan, and efforts
to negotiate resolution of their claims have been unsuccessful for a ten-day period.
(4) A condition substantially affecting the municipality’s financial distress is potentially solvable
only by utilizing a remedy exclusively available to the municipality through the Federal Municipal
Debt Readjustment Act (48 Stat. 798).
(5) A majority of the current or immediately preceding governing body of a municipality determined
to be financially distressed has failed to adopt a plan or to carry out the recommendations of the
coordinator pursuant to this act.
(b) Majority vote. – This authority may be exercised only upon the vote by a majority of the
municipality’s governing body
So it appears that per 261 (a)(5) there is a route to bankruptcy without the DECP's permission - but it would require real political courage and intransigence on the part of the city council. A majority would have to dig in, refuse point blank to carry out the coordinator recommendations, then vote to file for protection under Bankruptcy Code.

Last edited by squarian; 08-08-2011 at 10:17 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2011, 12:06 PM
 
20,273 posts, read 33,003,811 times
Reputation: 2911
Note that Section 211 of Act 11 of 2004 contains a special rule for cities of the second class (the one and only of which being Pittsburgh).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2011, 12:39 PM
 
7,112 posts, read 10,129,067 times
Reputation: 1781
It sounds as if Central Falls was mismanaged with overly generous retirement plans. After 20 years you get half of your final pay with full health benefits? I suppose the longer you stay the higher the percentage of pay you get?

On the old TribLive board, I recall one guy moaning about how he wished he was a Pittsburgh firefighter with its very generous retirement benefits. But ultimately, like they say, TANSTAAFL.

Plus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian
Alabama's Jefferson county looks set to become the largest municipal bankruptcy in US history, saddled with $3.2bn (£2bn) in debt it ran up on a new sewage system.
I wonder if we are getting to the point where large public projects are priced beyond what we can afford? I guess China can cut through all its internal "red tape" and get big projects done but here we have unions to appease and the EPA for environmental impact studies, etc. So, if you didn't build it 100 years ago, you probably can't afford to do it now?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2011, 12:54 PM
 
Location: O'Hara Twp.
4,359 posts, read 7,526,102 times
Reputation: 1611
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
It sounds as if Central Falls was mismanaged with overly generous retirement plans. After 20 years you get half of your final pay with full health benefits? I suppose the longer you stay the higher the percentage of pay you get?

On the old TribLive board, I recall one guy moaning about how he wished he was a Pittsburgh firefighter with its very generous retirement benefits. But ultimately, like they say, TANSTAAFL.

Plus

I wonder if we are getting to the point where large public projects are priced beyond what we can afford? I guess China can cut through all its internal "red tape" and get big projects done but here we have unions to appease and the EPA for environmental impact studies, etc. So, if you didn't build it 100 years ago, you probably can't afford to do it now?
It is all priorities. We, in this case PennDot, paid 350,000 to restore a streetcar from the 1930's. Oops I am sorry there was 20,000 in private donations.

Who needs bridge's?

Now, I am all for the public sector helping out non-profits, museums, etc. but I do think that public donations should not exceed private donations. If the public doesn't care about it why should the government.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2011, 02:08 PM
 
4,684 posts, read 4,571,445 times
Reputation: 1588
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
Note that Section 211 of Act 11 of 2004 contains a special rule for cities of the second class (the one and only of which being Pittsburgh).
So I see. At least this power is vested in the Governor rather than the Gen Ass - thank heaven for small mercies.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2011, 02:11 PM
 
4,684 posts, read 4,571,445 times
Reputation: 1588
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
I guess China can cut through all its internal "red tape" and get big projects done but here we have unions to appease and the EPA for environmental impact studies, etc. So, if you didn't build it 100 years ago, you probably can't afford to do it now?

Large public works projects in China don't always benefit from a lack of administrative review:

Banqiao Dam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2011, 02:18 PM
 
4,684 posts, read 4,571,445 times
Reputation: 1588
Quote:
Originally Posted by robrobrob View Post
If the public doesn't care about it why should the government.
Simply because the people who are in government (assuming the government is well-ordered to begin with) are often drawn from the better and wiser portion of the nation, so naturally they know better than the people at large.

If the Royal Opera House (Covent Garden) had to function on the basis of voluntary contributions, it would have closed sometime around 1905. Fortunately, successive Governments have supported it, because the people in government know better than the People.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2011, 03:51 PM
 
7,112 posts, read 10,129,067 times
Reputation: 1781
Quote:
Originally Posted by squarian View Post
Large public works projects in China don't always benefit from a lack of administrative review:

Banqiao Dam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yeah, but when you lose 171,000 people and leave 11 million people homeless. That's hard to sweep under the rug. Something like that happening in the US would be a much bigger legal mess than in China.

China built the Three Gorges Dam which required relocating over a million people. I doubt they agonized over its environmental impact.

China has been building HSR lines and even a Maglev line, the latter the US has been indecisive about for years.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Pennsylvania > Pittsburgh
Similar Threads
View detailed profiles of:

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:01 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top