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To be fair, though, it's not just UPMC that's outsourcing. Nearly every major employer is doing so. Just look at all of the "permatemp" jobs here in Pittsburgh. I have more college graduate peers of mine here who, like me, are severely underemployed working through staffing agencies trying to "get their foot in the door" while earning $10/hr. than I have gainfully employed college-educated acquaintances. Major employers don't want to pay decent wages or benefits, but they also need higher staffing levels so they turn to these staffing agencies to supply them with saps willing to work for peanuts just to scrape by. My partner has been a "permatemp" for approximately two years now.
No doubt, I definitely know what it's like to live that life. I've been knee deep in permatemp hell at various points in my career, major companies around here absolutely love stacking their workforce with permatemps. I'm not sure what your partner does but in my experience in IT you absolutely have to join up with a small company if you want to have a chance at a career instead of a job.
Please don't feed this off topic matter. Steel's friends are not part of UPMC's hiring, which is totally in question due to the fact that I believe they just want to tell our region, "hey look, UPMC has to hire more people because they are taking all the patients from AGH. We better switch to them too."
I apologize for straying. I agree that these probably aren't real jobs, but are either relocated from further outside the region or cannibalized from non-UPMC providers. On the other hand, as the population ages the need for health care increases whether or not the area is growing population-wise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
Well, I know a young engineer who is having trouble finding a job in Silicon Valley, where she moved after her marriage. I don't know what you mean as "hard sciences", my daughter graduated with a degree in Molecular, Cellular and Developmental biology and got a job in a day care center back in 2009 in the depths of the recession; one of her friends who is a civil engineer is working for Habitat for Humanity via Americorps; it's really a jungle out there.
Understanding the economy of a region is just as important for getting a job as having the right credentials: Pittsburgh is currently strong in health care, insurance, banking and technology. Coming in to this area looking for employment that doesn't fit this profile will be more difficult. Silicon Valley, for instance, is almost 100% software now, the days of hardware are long gone, as such an engineering degree doesn't mean as much there as it would elsewhere. Your daughter picked a hard field to get in to as she'll need at least an MS and most likely a PhD to get in the door anywhere, all those jobs are in research. As you said yourself its a jungle out there and its all economics, too bad that's an area of study not required any more.
^^Thank you for the career advice for my daughter and her friends. (Sarcasm intended)
Most married people prefer to live together and find the jobs they can where they are living. Usually the husband's job determines where they live, even today. My daughter is in grad school now. She never intended to get a professional job straight out of college, however, in "normal" times (whatever that is, and believe me, I have a lot more perspective on this than you do as I have lived longer) one can get some type of job that simply requires a college degree in "anything". I do know people who got professional jobs with a BA/BS in biology, but not if they graduated in 2009.
^^Thank you for the career advice for my daughter and her friends. (Sarcasm intended).
I don't think it was out of line.... there are many degrees that would be virtually impossible to find employment with in our region (at least without a terminal degree as teaching is always a possibility) yet job opening in that field may be prevelant elsewhere and vice versa. If someone wants to stay in Western, PA they just have to be realistic in what they choose to study.
Location: Pittsburgh (via Chicago, via Pittsburgh)
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great job UPMC! Since you doubled your net profit from last fiscal year, you can hire more workers that will likely quit after a year because you pay some of the lowest wages in the country for your sector. AGH all the way! (or cleveland clinic if you don't mind a drive)
I don't think it was out of line.... there are many degrees that would be virtually impossible to find employment with in our region (at least without a terminal degree as teaching is always a possibility) yet job opening in that field may be prevelant elsewhere and vice versa. If someone wants to stay in Western, PA they just have to be realistic in what they choose to study.
Yep!
My daughter is/was one of those.
She has a specialized undergrad engineering degree in optics.
Her options were extremely slim here, but when she married and moved to WA, she found well-paying employment immediately.
I don't think it was out of line.... there are many degrees that would be virtually impossible to find employment with in our region (at least without a terminal degree as teaching is always a possibility) yet job opening in that field may be prevelant elsewhere and vice versa. If someone wants to stay in Western, PA they just have to be realistic in what they choose to study.
None of these people I was talking about live in Pgh. And the line of quote I was disagreeing with is:
Anecdotally, my friends who graduated with BS/MS degrees in computer science, engineering and hard sciences aren't having much trouble, but my friends who got degrees in general business, soft sciences, arts or humanities are having a hard time.
Nothing was said about where these people should look for jobs. I gave three examples of people with degrees in engineering and hard science who have had difficulty finding jobs in their fields. None of you have any idea where they have been looking, except for the woman who moved to Silicon Valley to live with her husband.
AGH all the way! (or cleveland clinic if you don't mind a drive)
I know an insider at AGH and they are in talks with Cleveland Clinic. I don't think the name will change, but Cleveland Clinic might run the place. There are other talks going on as well, so I am not sure what will ultimately happen. If I were to guess, Cleveland Clinic will be involved with AGH.
Most married people prefer to live together and find the jobs they can where they are living. Usually the husband's job determines where they live, even today.
This is a conscious decision that was made. She chose to move out to Silicon Valley to be with her husband regardless of whether or not she would be able to find employment within her field. Even the very best fisherman would be hard fetched to find employment in Kansas. Anyway, I thought it was 2011, did I get sent back to 1954 by mistake? Women shouldn't be expected to put off or pack up a career just because hubby wants to scurry up the corporate ladder. Marriages are partnerships of equals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
... however, in "normal" times (whatever that is, and believe me, I have a lot more perspective on this than you do as I have lived longer) one can get some type of job that simply requires a college degree in "anything"
Replace "college degree" with "high school diploma" and your statement very well could have been made 40 years ago. The generic college degree is the new high school diploma and worth just as little. Where have those jobs that required just a diploma gone? The same can be said for the jobs requiring just a college degree 40 years from now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
Nothing was said about where these people should look for jobs. I gave three examples of people with degrees in engineering and hard science who have had difficulty finding jobs in their fields. None of you have any idea where they have been looking
But they have chosen to pin themselves down geographically and expect to find a job just because they have a degree. The new normal is a highly mobile economy where you have to be willing to relocate, especially early in one's career, to get in the door and start building a career. I am currently separated from my partner because we are both relatively early in our careers, which we care deeply for, and are willing to suffer for in the short-term in order to build are careers and, once settled, look together for a place to live that works for us both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
... however, in "normal" times (whatever that is, and believe me, I have a lot more perspective on this than you do as I have lived longer)...
This is not a personal attack, I am not speaking to you personally or directly. 'You' is used collectively below to refer to your generation.
The perspective that your generation has brought is what has led this nation down its current path of economic and financial ruin.
First, late in your parent's generation, during your generation's cultural counter-revolution, brought a breath of fresh air of social liberalism and the Great Society. Social Security Disability, Medicare, Medicaid, War on Poverty, Welfare, Food Stamps. Your generation applauded these as bastions of progress and enlightenment.
Then, when the bills started coming due, your generation decided not to pay them and instead elected Reagan. Reagan was a great orator and managed to blind the public with his speeches and war on Communism while behind the scenes he was busy dismantling these very programs your generation trumpeted not a decade earlier. He slashed taxes on the wealthy (those children of the 60s who were now in their prime earning years) and said it would "trickle down". National debt surged.
Reaganomics continued though the 80s and 90s, juiced by deregulation of entire industries and finally of the financial system itself. One bubble after another, booms and recessions coming ever quicker. Your generation was by now entirely in charge having entirely turned your backs on your ideals for one more quarter of profit. The writing was on the wall, but instead of dealing with the problems of your own making you whipped out the national credit card and ran up one helluva huge tab. One last hurrah before retirement and the enjoyment of a life time of hard work.
Now entering your twilight years your generation looks back on those Great Society programs, underfunded, near collapse and ruin, with a sense of entitlement very becoming of the Me Generation of the 1980s. Bad habits are hard to kick. Your generation has been getting something for nothing for decades, why stop now?
Forgive me if I sound ungrateful when I say that my generation would be better served by our own perspective. A perspective that values personal responsibility for one's actions; a perspective that looks within for solutions instead of without for blame; a perspective that values critical thinking and intelligent debate over rhetoric and deception. My generation lives in the world wrought by your generation and we hold both the bill for and the lack of an economy to pay for it. We need to reflect upon what has transpired and forge a new direction and embrace the new economy and make the best of it if we ever have any hope of reclaiming our nation's past glory.
Pittsburgh is, if anything, a glimmer of hope - a city once decaying under the neglect of a post-industrial age, but since is redefining itself as a post-modern, vibrant, city embracing the new normal and making the best of it. I am very proud to call myself a Pittsburgher.
The perspective that your generation has brought is what has led this nation down its current path of economic and financial ruin.
First, late in your parents' generation, during your generation's cultural counter-revolution, brought a breath of fresh air of social liberalism and the Great Society. Social Security Disability, Medicare, Medicaid, War on Poverty, Welfare, Food Stamps. Your generation applauded these as bastions of progress and enlightenment.
Then, when the bills started coming due, your generation decided not to pay them and instead elected Reagan.
I think I am a member of the generation you castigate (baby boomer), but don't you dare accuse me of electing Reagan. Reagan is no generational favorite. You need to look at lines drawn between classes, not ages.
Also, Social Security, Disability, Medicare, etc. were in place way before baby boomers were old enough to vote. You might want to get all kinds of facts correct before you start generalizing like this.
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