If you really want to build a new house, what is the most ethical approach? (Pittsburgh: cheap home, to buy)

[BrianTH]

I should note I have no problem with porticos in general, but I do think McMansions often make gratuitous use of the two-story portico in a misguided attempt to add grandeur. I'd also agree the one Greg linked really isn't that bad (although I still don't like the portico):

Some "greatest hits" of the two-story McMansion portico:









You can even get them for kids (this is a playhouse):

[safak]

Originally Posted by greg42

I think it looks cookie cutter. Obviously many people find them appealing else there wouldn't be many developments full of them! But some people liking them doesn't make it not a McMansion. That house will be situated with many other houses looking very similar.

how is that different than the millions of row-house locations that all look exactly the same. or ~70's, 80's era develpments where its 50% split entries that are exactly the same, 50% 2 story boxes that are exactly the same except colors.
I could post my mothers house in shadyside in the 'show off your house' thread and it would get applause simply because its old and in decent shape..and it is a lovely older house, but if i pan down the street 3-4 blocks you will see a couple dozen very similar houses.

my brother lives in a split entry..does he live in a McSmallhouse?
is my moms a McOldhouse?
or is there just an agenda against people who have a little more money to spend, because other than that last one that looks like a dollhouse..i'd love to know where there are 100 of those side by side.. those are some very nice houses. althouigh i do agree about portico's on most houses..theres alot of things i don't like that others do..like old houses with expansions built in that are overly obvious for example., but its just taste.

[Caladium]

Originally Posted by greg42

I think it looks cookie cutter. Obviously many people find them appealing else there wouldn't be many developments full of them! But some people liking them doesn't make it not a McMansion. That house will be situated with many other houses looking very similar.

Well, I'm not sure I agree that every other house will look similar. After all, the photos I posted look very different, yet they are all from the same development, and were all built at the same time. But, that's just how I see things and before this thread digresses into a discussion of taste... the important thing is we've established that you don't care for this style, which makes you a perfect person for getting back to the original question.

So.... how would you feel if someone decided to build one of these homes in your neighborhood?

If you're against the idea, what sort of action (if any) would you feel should be taken to prevent that from happening. Or, do you feel that people can build what they like? Would it make a difference if it was being built on a vacant lot? Or, if it was replacing a home that had been for sale and vacant for years? We were joking about outlawing 2-story porticos, but along that line are there any restrictions you think really should be made for a house to be built in Pittsburgh?

I'm just trying to get an idea how Pittsburghians feel about and react to this sort of thing. I realize you don't represent all Pittsburghians, but it's a start. (And I'd love to hear answers from anyone else, as well. Brian, you've already said you wouldn't mind as long as it was well built and used quality materials, but if you have more to say by all means jump in, too.)

Also, I gather that people really don't like the idea of getting neighbors to sign off on a project, but I'm not sure why. Anyone care to elaborate on this one a little more?

[BrianTH]

Pittsburghers have a real live and let live streak. So the idea of putting a decision like this up to a neighborhood vote is running contrary to local norms.

[greg42]

Originally Posted by safak

how is that different than the millions of row-house locations that all look exactly the same. or ~70's, 80's era develpments where its 50% split entries that are exactly the same, 50% 2 story boxes that are exactly the same except colors.
I could post my mothers house in shadyside in the 'show off your house' thread and it would get applause simply because its old and in decent shape..and it is a lovely older house, but if i pan down the street 3-4 blocks you will see a couple dozen very similar houses.

my brother lives in a split entry..does he live in a McSmallhouse?
is my moms a McOldhouse?
or is there just an agenda against people who have a little more money to spend, because other than that last one that looks like a dollhouse..i'd love to know where there are 100 of those side by side.. those are some very nice houses. althouigh i do agree about portico's on most houses..theres alot of things i don't like that others do..like old houses with expansions built in that are overly obvious for example., but its just taste.

You misinterpret me perhaps. I meant only to explain the term McMansion. Yes, I personally don't care for them, don't find it attractive and think they are out of scale for the plots of land they are generally built on. I don't find it to be an agenda personally (although it is for some I'm sure, and perhaps some folks with agenda are behind the term's coining). But I don't believe I judged the people choosing them. You may recall that I live in my own cookie cutter house from the 80s. That's the 1980s, not the 1880s, LOL, so I definitely live in a McSmallhouse. And certainly putting up rows of very similar houses has been going on for decades. It just didn't used to happen so much with higher end large houses placed close together on very small lots in areas where there is otherwise still plenty of space. (I'm not talking about in the city here, but the suburbs and exurbs.)

As far as where you find dozens or so of these in one development, you just have to look in upscale suburbs where there's been construction in the mid to late-1990s through 2000s and present.

It's quite possible that those of us who really don't care for McMansions are overall a small minority. Obviously a lot of people do like them and aspire to that sort of house.

[greg42]

Originally Posted by Caladium

Well, I'm not sure I agree that every other house will look similar. After all, the photos I posted look very different, yet they are all from the same development, and were all built at the same time. But, that's just how I see things and before this thread digresses into a discussion of taste... the important thing is we've established that you don't care for this style, which makes you a perfect person for getting back to the original question.

So.... how would you feel if someone decided to build one of these homes in your neighborhood?

If you're against the idea, what sort of action (if any) would you feel should be taken to prevent that from happening. Or, do you feel that people can build what they like? Would it make a difference if it was being built on a vacant lot? Or, if it was replacing a home that had been for sale and vacant for years? We were joking about outlawing 2-story porticos, but along that line are there any restrictions you think really should be made for a house to be built in Pittsburgh?

I'm just trying to get an idea how Pittsburghians feel about and react to this sort of thing. I realize you don't represent all Pittsburghians, but it's a start. (And I'd love to hear answers from anyone else, as well. Brian, you've already said you wouldn't mind as long as it was well built and used quality materials, but if you have more to say by all means jump in, too.)

Also, I gather that people really don't like the idea of getting neighbors to sign off on a project, but I'm not sure why. Anyone care to elaborate on this one a little more?

I still think your own example development represents a higher grade of housing, perhaps high enough that it shouldn't even be considered "Mc". I mean, I know a person who built (well, had built for him) a million dollar house in a Pittsburgh suburb a few years ago. It's custom built, but it is in a development, albeit a small one with the number of lots in the teens. The lots are large, though, and have trees preserved. Some of the other houses in there are a little more toward the typical Mc style but they have a fair amount of differentiation.

Anyway, we should perhaps let go of trying to make finer and finer distinctions in the definition of what we expect when we say McMansion.

I'm not actually a good example at all given, as I said, that I live in my own McSmallHouse. Nobody in their right mind would really put up a McMansion right near me, although there are some not too far away. Do I care? No, not really. I don't care for the styles, but people can put up generally what they like. We all have our own particulars of what we find tasteful or not, but no certainly the neighbors in general shouldn't have any input on the house. As I mentioned before, I think it's nearly always better when the house blends in with the neighborhood in some way, but that doesn't necessarily mean any particular styles or elements. Of course some neighborhoods already have restrictive covenants, so those have to be adhered to. Super strict associations are generally a source of amusement or bewilderment (or both) as well for many, myself included, but they have their fans, and one should not expect to go into such a neighborhood and build something non-conforming.

If I bought an empty lot or a teardown somewhere with the intention of putting up a house, I certainly wouldn't expect to have to run it by neighbors. That doesn't make sense. But I also wouldn't expect everyone in the neighborhood would welcome my design with open arms. You can't please everyone. So that's still the way I look at it.

BTW, my own preferred style would be something contemporary and on a wooded lot, I think. I like space around my house, but I don't much care if it's grass. Wasn't something I found in my price range within a reasonable distance of downtown. But the house would still be fairly small I gather, although if it were a place we could get people to visit, perhaps having some extra rooms would be in order. Basically, if I could get Frank Lloyd Wright to build me a house in the woods like the Kaufmanns or probably more like the Hagans really, that might be close to ideal.

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by Caladium

So the wall of vinyl siding may just be a Virginia thing.

I also saw a lot of that in Michigan...I'm not a fan of vinyl siding at all.

My favorite in Pittsburgh are those tall stout houses with porches...kind of littered about on hill sides...love 'em. Probably a lot of stairs to climb, but I really like the exterior look.

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by greg42

Anyway, we should perhaps let go of trying to make finer and finer distinctions in the definition of what we expect when we say McMansion.

I agree. A largely built and brand new house might not necessarily be a McMansion.

It's basically a derogatory term for when developers buy up cheap land in the middle of nowhere, and than mass-produce identical large houses all with the exact same layout design like factory work.

If someone just builds a large one-of-a-kind house with their own personal tastes to it...that definitely isn't a McMansion. It's just a large house or a mansion.

[Tallysmom]

Out here, in very tony Palo Alto, there was quite a furor a few years back when people were buying average homes, tearing them down and building as large a montrosity as they could on as much land as was allowed.... shutting out the sunlight and taking down mature trees and screwing up the neighborhood.

Those were always called McMansions here.... although they weren't, since they weren't in developments. But they were really really resented....

[BrianTH]

Yeah, I think people in Pittsburgh are not necessarily familiar with the fact that the OP is asking about a very real issue in other places, where people are tearing down individual houses in older, more modest neighborhoods and building what look like stereotypical McMansions on fairly small lots.