Pittsburgh Fantasy Subway System (Oakland: sales, new construction, university)

[airwave09]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

The notable difference is that the AVRR is underutilized, whereas the workable Mon Valley lines are actually pretty busy with freight.

This is a good point. I don't understand how freight rail handles stuff like this, but if there is conceivably a track down the Mon that is very underused, how complicated would it be to get them to give it up for use with passenger service?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by airwave09

This is a good point. I don't understand how freight rail handles stuff like this, but if there is conceivably a track down the Mon that is very underused, how complicated would it be to get them to give it up for use with passenger service?

So typically incumbent rail owners are concerned about three things when it comes to starting up a commuter rail service: making sure they can still operate freight, who is responsible for maintenance, and who has legal liability. All these things have been worked out in many other cases, but it can be complex nailing down the details and usually you need to bring some money to the table and also have the relevant regulators on board.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Commuter rail can in fact promote sprawl, or it can help revitalize existing towns--it all depends on where you run it.

Commuter rail's effect on sprawl is nothing compared to roads. What sprawl commuter rail might cause would not be of any concern. If it were just commuter rail, Atlanta would have at most development following along the ribbons of track. But in fact Atlanta saw that its rail lines did not promote growth near its stations. Our transit authority, MARTA, and local government actually had to spearhead projects and offer incentives to encourage development near rail stations. Roads..not so much. Besides, commuter rail is sort of after the fact as its routes are laid out to follow population centers rather than trying to promote suburban growth. In metro Atlanta, there is a debate of putting in commuter rail to Cobb County, density 2,000 people per square mile. A line to Armstrong county would be serving an area of about 105 people per square mile. And Ford City and Kittanning have perhaps a combined population of 10,000 and probably there are many retirees.

Something like the AVRR would be stringing together existing towns, and it would be cheap (I know this is a fantasy discussion, but still), so that is why I've got no problem with that proposal.

I don't have a problem with putting in a commuter rail route, but roads are FAR more useful. People in the Allegheny Valley can already commute by car and even with commuter rail, some if not many, will continue to do so. I don't see it giving an appreciable impact economically to Ford City and Kittanning. If there were jobs begging for people in Pittsburgh it could work but I think Ford City and Kittanning are more interested in promoting jobs, not helping its citizens find them elsewhere.

[dtw0592]

I read somewhere they are planning to extend the system to Oakland. I wonder whatever happened to that?

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by dtw0592

I read somewhere they are planning to extend the system to Oakland. I wonder whatever happened to that?

Probably no time soon. There was a lot of complaints about the cost of LRT expansion to the North Side and extending it to Oakland would even be more expensive.

Besides, the Port Authority is in fairly serious financial straits at this point in time, preserving their system is higher on their priorities right now than expanding it.

[Anonymous939630]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

Probably no time soon. There was a lot of complaints about the cost of LRT expansion to the North Side and extending it to Oakland would even be more expensive.

Besides, the Port Authority is in fairly serious financial straits at this point in time, preserving their system is higher on their priorities right now than expanding it.

Actually the Port Authority barely even covered a portion of funding. Massive projects like this are always paid for by the Federal Transit Authority (in the case of the North Shore, 80%), with the remainder coming from the state and county. So if there were ever such an extension, it would be a federal project. In this economy it would be met with extremely fierce resistance because of the economic climate. I'd say don't expect it for at least 20 years, if the project even goes forward. Instead, I expect that the work will continue toward the airport (there's another huge reason the connector was put in place -- there's now a logical connecting link to the airport) before eastward extension, unless there's some sort of massive increase in Pittsburgh's population, and let's face it, that's not going to happen.

[Hopes]

This is the first time I've seen this. Millvale and Etna should be on the line.

If not, it needs to stop in less congested areas (other than Sharpsburg) so there's room for huge parking lots.

Have a short subway going to the east end. Oakland shouldn't have been left out.

It's sort of a shame that you aimed for Aspinwall and Mt. Lebanon and not more working class neighborhoods.

But since this is a fantasy, add a line to Hampton!

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by Hopes

This is the first time I've seen this. Millvale and Etna should be on the line.

If not, it needs to stop in less congested areas (other than Sharpsburg) so there's room for huge parking lots.

Have a short subway going to the east end. Oakland shouldn't have been left out.

It's sort of a shame that you aimed for Aspinwall and Mt. Lebanon and not more working class neighborhoods.

But since this is a fantasy, add a line to Hampton!

It was left editable by anyone & someone apparently just deleted the whole thing & added some random lines out to the suburbs so what's on there now is nothing resembling the map that was originally made & discussed on here so should pretty much be disregarded because someone had to be an a$$

[Copanut]

Add a line to North Park and I'll take in a few Bucco games for the first time in years.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by UKyank

It was left editable by anyone & someone apparently just deleted the whole thing & added some random lines out to the suburbs so what's on there now is nothing resembling the map that was originally made & discussed on here so should pretty much be disregarded because someone had to be an a$$

That's a shame! Would have loved to have seen your vision.