Occupy Pittsburgh to host permitted event (Washington, Indiana: places to live, move to, transportation)

[Caladium]

I'm hoping my comments inspire a few people. I'd like to see this movement be something more than simply yelling at corporations and waving signs. Making noise is fun, but if you really want to see change you have to focus on goals and solutions, IMO. I have this naive hope that maybe my comments on this forum might help that happen. Hey, it doesn't hurt to try.

I'm so much more interested in the Occupy movements in cities the size of Pittsburgh than I am in the ones in NYC, DC, or even Seattle. The big cities draw the drama queens and (sometimes) the nuts--but a movement in Pittsburgh is going to be more about real people with real issues hoping to make a real change in their city.

Which is why I think it's in places like Pittsburgh where the real solutions will be born.

The thing is, I think it's only going to happen if the Occupy Pittsburgh movement becomes focused on solutions. Hopefully that's what will happen--and if my comments can help nudge in that direction, I'll feel like I made a contribution. What would break my heart would be to see the focus become too centered on anger and yelling and see the whole movement dissolve into a riot. Maybe I'm just too idealistic, but I want to see goals and ideas coming out of this, not just rage.

[BrianTH]

I think people are not so much disagreeing about the need for concrete goals eventually, but about:

(A) Whether it is reasonable to demand an agenda for concrete goals be produced right now, at this very early stage in building the movement; and

(B) Whether concrete goals need to take the form of detailed policy proposals, versus alternatives like supporting certain electoral results, lobbying on proposed legislation, and so forth.

[Drover]

I hope we can at least agree that trying to disrupt the normal day-to-day routine of hundreds of thousands of people and sh*#ting on American flags and squad cars is not a productive way to accomplish change. Like someone else mentioned, Pittsburgh can probably be thankful that bigger cities will draw the anarchy kooks who will leave smaller cities alone. Unfortunately, it's the bigger cities particularly New York that will get the lion's share of media attention.

[WestLibertyAve]

Originally Posted by Scott2187

I finished school in 2008 with a mountain of student debt, and started in a menial job. 3 years later my menial job has turned into an excellent job with excellent pay and benefits. How did that happen? Oh, that's right... I actually applied myself and worked hard to advance.

The system isn't rigged like everyone thinks it is; the problem occurs with people now-a-days thinking they should have everything handed to them on a silver platter instead of working for what they want.

So that's why we're in a Recession? Because too many people want things handed to them on a silver platter? Making statements like that are great for dramatization on a message board, but if you're really as intelligent as you would lead us to believe, surely you can't agree with your own sweeping generalizations that everyone who isn't where they want to be in life is purely lazy.

I think I recall you saying you're 25, the same as me, and while it doesn't appear I'm as well off as you, I'm pretty content with where I am at this point in my career and life. However, I sat through countless fruitless interviews before finally landing my current position (as do most college grads these days). And the thing is with interviews, they don't really know if you're a hard worker or not. You can come in with an elegant resume, and glowing references, but until your employer sees your work ethic in person, they don't know whether you're legit or just one of those spoon-fed kids who's CEO daddy's friends were listed as your references.

When I couldn't find a job in my field right out of college, I worked as a cook in a local dive bar in order to pay my bills and have money to live on. These kinds of jobs are always out there, and while I agree there's no excuse to be unemployed as long as there are job listings like that on Craigslist, people don't invest tens of thousands of dollars and years of their life on a college education so that they can flip burgers for the next 10 years. I don't want to say I considered the work "below" me (I actually love cooking in a restaurant setting), but I definitely was never content simply because I was making money-I wanted to work in the field I invested so much time and effort towards gaining entry into. I sympathize with SCR on this, because he's always being told on here that it's his fault he's in his predicament, but in reality, he did everything he was supposed to do, yet is delivering gifts because he can't find anything in his field. Yes it's money, but wake up people, sometimes it's about more than just the money. What happened to doing what you love and loving what you do? Seems that only works out these days if you happen to be the 1 out of 20 applicants who strikes a particular chord with your interviewer. Are those other 19 people just lazy and waiting to be spoon-fed? Get real.

[BrianTH]

A chart worth keeping in mind:



There really aren't enough jobs to go around for young people, even if they were all willing to take whatever job they could get.

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

A chart worth keeping in mind:



There really aren't enough jobs to go around for young people, even if they were all willing to take whatever job they could get.

Indeed, on top of that many of those jobs that they do get do not provide a livable wage. While having a "job" is important, having a livable income is what people actually need. Partial employment, low wages, and lack of benefits are just as much as a killer as unemployment. Couple that with student loan debt for college grads and you have a system that is completely unsustainable and will reach a boiling point. I think we're seeing that boiling point now.

[Geeo]

So I'm thinking...(hope this isn't off track)...I remember reading that part of the reason Roosevelt and his cabinet instituted Social Security during the Depression was to get the older people out of the workforce to make room for the young people who couldn't get a job during those hard times. The country during the depths of the Depression was teetering toward civil unrest and young people couldn't get work.

Forward to today, during another severe downturn, and those of us middle aged and in the workforce are being told that we may have to work until we're 70 to make up for the decrease in our retirement funds. I'm thinking that with more people delaying retirement, we may be facing the same situation again with a whole generation starting out behind and never really catching up.

[Caladium]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I think people are not so much disagreeing about the need for concrete goals eventually, but about:

(A) Whether it is reasonable to demand an agenda for concrete goals be produced right now, at this very early stage in building the movement; and

(B) Whether concrete goals need to take the form of detailed policy proposals, versus alternatives like supporting certain electoral results, lobbying on proposed legislation, and so forth.

That's ok, as long as they are thinking about it, it's focusing in the right direction. IMO.

[mike02]

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

Indeed, on top of that many of those jobs that they do get do not provide a livable wage. While having a "job" is important, having a livable income is what people actually need. Partial employment, low wages, and lack of benefits are just as much as a killer as unemployment. Couple that with student loan debt for college grads and you have a system that is completely unsustainable and will reach a boiling point. I think we're seeing that boiling point now.

It is the Federal Reserve and Inflation along with tax policy that have been preventing the "livable wage."

[ditchdigger]

Originally Posted by Caladium

Maybe I'm just too idealistic, but I want to see goals and ideas coming out of this, not just rage.

I read the first 14 pages yesterday when I got home, and haven't caught up with today's posts, except for reading a few on the last page, but given that this sentiment seems to have carried over from what I read yesterday...

I really don't have a problem with any given group of aggrieved people airing their grievances and then expecting those who've been elected to lead coming up with some solutions. I mean, they are supposed to be leaders aren't they? Shouldn't we expect our leaders to put some effort into comong up with solutions, rather than seeing which way the wind is blowing before implementing solutions proposed by others?

(Which is not to say that the aggrieved might not get better results by asking for specific remedies, but you get my drift. Make em earn their pay for a change...)