East Liberty... (St. Clair, Highland Park: new home, safe neighborhoods, school)

[BrianTH]

There was definitely a lot of "vision" involved--the problem is the vision was based on fundamentally faulty assumptions, and a disregard of many of the costs of trying to implement the vision.

There is a good discussion of some of this here (particularly starting with "Neighborhood in ruins") in reference to the failed "cultural Acropolis" plan for the Hill:

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - News Links -Hill District determined to regain lost greatness

[pman]

Originally Posted by Steelers10

Pretty interesting how a populist like Lawrence influenced R.K. Mellon but I guess it could be equally said that Mellon operated Lawrence as an enforcer. They were ambitious to be sure but I don't perceive them exactly as visionaries. It seems as if the decision to essentially raze the Lower Hill District was more of political expedience (Lawrence could get away with it) rather than any sound development initiative. Certainly there was no expectation that dilapidated buildings be left for eventual rehabilitation (I don't think people thought like that back in the 50s) but I think Pittsburgh lost some of its distinctiveness. IDK but it seems like Pittsburgh should have been more than just a larger Cincinnati or Buffalo.

it was like that everywhere and it actually predates the 50's. it became known as negro removal because guess who was easiest to push aside? plus many black.neighborhoods were in older sections that planners had deemed unfit. as an aside...these policies werent necessarily popular (except among those who made decisions) but benefitted key people. it was in ny where jane jacobs famously lent her pen to help save the then immigrant heavy village. anyways it sort of flew in the face of the american experience which had had no problem knocking down the old when there was a new use for the property.

[Uptown kid]

East Liberty Shooting Leaves 1 Dead « CBS Pittsburgh
East Liberty north of the Boulevard still isn't that great. Black youth over there may unfortunately still say "my friend got killed on this street." Plus there still are gang/drug-related shootings/stabbings/home invasions in that are and in East Liberty Gardens. Seems like the young thugs from East Liberty as well as Larimer & Garfield aren't just going to give up to gentrification without a fight...

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by Uptown kid

Seems like the young thugs from East Liberty as well as Larimer & Garfield aren't just going to give up to gentrification without a fight...

I'm sure they might well fight, but they'll lose it for sure.

10 years ago, 10th Ward L'ville was pretty crime ridden with open prostitution and drug sales particularly in their alleys- the yuppies have kicked them right into the shadows and soon right out of the neighborhood.

The old neighbors may have been intimidated, but when new people are investing major bucks they aren't inclined to tolerate open criminal behavior.

[chielgirl]

I've lived in/around the neighborhood all of my life.
Most of East Liberty was iffy for the entire time; not always crime-ridden, but not taken care of.
I didn't want to walk there, that's for certain.

[Uptown kid]

[quote]I'm sure they might well fight, but they'll lose it for sure.

10 years ago, 10th Ward L'ville was pretty crime ridden with open prostitution and drug sales particularly in their alleys- the yuppies have kicked them right into the shadows and soon right out of the neighborhood.

The old neighbors may have been intimidated, but when new people are investing major bucks they aren't inclined to tolerate open criminal behavior.[quote]

True I agree that the northern part of East Liberty can will soon be gentrified, maybe Garfield but today's young thugs will be old (if they're lucky) when Larimer is turned around...

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by Uptown kid

True I agree that the northern part of East Liberty can will soon be gentrified, maybe Garfield but today's young thugs will be old (if they're lucky) when Larimer is turned around...

I wouldn't be too sure about that, uptown.

Larimer has lots of vacant real estate, its a relatively small area, and best of all for its future it has natural borders with its bridges.

The gangs could easily be squeezed out in pretty quick order if developers and the city see its potential. Of course that's a big "if", but the number of vacant lots on Larimer Ave. is really incredible, its almost a blank slate.

[selltheburgh]

The homicide is unfortunate and an isolated incident. The kid's grandmother lives there and he was sought out by thugs who knew he was in east lib and at church.

The northern section (east lib blvd to Stanton) has about 5 more years before it feels not very different than a great block in highland park. The southern section (below east lib blvd) has good blocks an bad, but will be very nice and convenient to the reviving business district. This will happen this generation.

There are developers waiting in line for distressed properties to become available to flip. I'm one of them.

[interested_burgher]

Originally Posted by selltheburgh

The homicide is unfortunate and an isolated incident. The kid's grandmother lives there and he was sought out by thugs who knew he was in east lib and at church.

The northern section (east lib blvd to Stanton) has about 5 more years before it feels not very different than a great block in highland park. The southern section (below east lib blvd) has good blocks an bad, but will be very nice and convenient to the reviving business district. This will happen this generation.

There are developers waiting in line for distressed properties to become available to flip. I'm one of them.

The neighborhood may be getting better, but for those who live in the area, homicide is unsettling. I go all over the city, and it's not comfortable traveling through the northern section as you describe above (East Liberty Blvd to Stanton) or even the area from Penn to East Liberty Blvd. at times, such as at night and/or when the weather is good. North St Clair St. alone seems to have at least one homicide per year anymore. I hope the area makes a comeback, but there are a lot of sketchy characters lurking around. I wouldn't walk around after dark......especially on the side streets where re-development has NOT occurred.

Unfortunately, a lot of people living in that area have no choice but to walk and/or ride the bus. They are easy robbery targets, especially when walking alone. When one can walk alone confidently at night from Penn to East Liberty Blvd. to Stanton or from Bakery Square to Highland over to Negley and beyond without trepidation, then I'll recommend it. However, if you don't have a car, you're a sitting duck on those long stretches. Anyway, I hope the area continues to make improvement, but it certainly is not there yet.

[selltheburgh]

Homicide is unsettling for everybody, not just neighbors. I walk around that area (moreso when it is warm than freezing cold) and I'll agree that there are some sketchy people around, but there are sketchy people during the day too. There are certain streets that are safer to walk than others, but overall it isn't as bad as it appears. There's far more blight than crime, but the blight is soon to developed.

An example; on the corner across from an apartment building that I own on n. st clair, a large, yet relatively normal looking man was standing on the corner for 35 minutes. It was dark and raining slightly, so it was odd that he would be standing there. It made me uneasy seeing him there. When I was leaving my building, he asked told me that he was locked out and asked to use my phone. he didn't seem sketchy once he spoke to me, so I dialed the number and handed it to him. he needed his girlfriend to get home to get him in so he could get to work. he was just having some bad luck and was waiting in case she drove by without answering her phone.

I'll also add that the most uncomfortable I've felt in that area had to do with 3 men who frequent a property not far from East Lib Blvd. After questioning the property owner, he told me there are weight benches and a small gym in in the building and off duty and undercover cops go there and lift weights. there's a reason why they have tinted windows and are super ripped.

Is it as safe as walking around in Sq Hill at night - no. Do I know somebody who was robbed and murdered while walking in Sq Hill at night - yes.

If everybody lives in fear and stays inside and watches tv or plays video games instead of being outside, interacting with their neighbors, and walking around, it will only perpetuate the cycle of fear.