2012 Pirates (Pittsburgh: transit, best, required)

[pman]

any chance they resign lee? they do need a ss

[gg]

Originally Posted by hornet67

How sad and also infuriating that this once proud franchise, in existence since 1887, and winner of five World Series, has been reduced to a local and national joke by an inept, cheap, and greedy owner.
Mein Gott, the team of Wagner, Traynor, Clemente, Stargell, etc., is set to have it's 20th losing season in 2012 !
Until Nutting sells the team, which ain't happening anytime soon, the Pirates will continue to be a laughingstock in major league baseball.

There was a time that the Pirates were indeed a great franchise. Sadly the record of 20 losing seasons in a row will live forever and is etched in stone. In the record books forever. Ah well, at least we have the Steelers and the Penguins. They are nothing to joke about.

[robrobrob]

Everyone is missing the point, Nutting can't make money and put on a decent product. He has enough money to put on a decent product but he isn't willing to risk losing 100 million to improve the team. That is just how baseball works. The Pirates don't bring in enough revenue to put on a decent product. It was only recently that they started drafting the correct players players. Spending money on unproven players is the only way to win with a low payroll. Unfortunately, we haven't been too successful with our drafts. Alverez is still a work in progress at best. At worst he is a bust. How long has Walker taken to become a average major league player. Too long. Tabita isn't all that great. McCutchen, isn't exactly the star of the 2005 draft. Other players drafted that year are much bigger stars.

Don't be mad at Nutting. Be made a McClatchey for agreeing to the last bargaining agreement.

[Lobick]

Originally Posted by robrobrob

McCutchen, isn't exactly the star of the 2005 draft. Other players drafted that year are much bigger stars.

Maybe, but not those drafted after him.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by robrobrob

Everyone is missing the point, Nutting can't make money and put on a decent product. He has enough money to put on a decent product but he isn't willing to risk losing 100 million to improve the team. That is just how baseball works. The Pirates don't bring in enough revenue to put on a decent product. It was only recently that they started drafting the correct players players. Spending money on unproven players is the only way to win with a low payroll. Unfortunately, we haven't been too successful with our drafts. Alverez is still a work in progress at best. At worst he is a bust. How long has Walker taken to become a average major league player. Too long. Tabita isn't all that great. McCutchen, isn't exactly the star of the 2005 draft. Other players drafted that year are much bigger stars.

Don't be mad at Nutting. Be made a McClatchey for agreeing to the last bargaining agreement.

Other small market teams seem to be able to make it under the current bargaining agreement. Do I expect the pirates to be in world series contention every year? No But like similiarly situated teams I do expect them to be at the very least competitive & occasionally be in the WS contention mix. Currently & for quite some time they've been nothing short of an embarrassing subpar minor league class of team.
Crying small market doesn't cut it when teams in much worse shape manage to compete semi-consistently and we fail miserably at doing so.

[hornet67]

Originally Posted by robrobrob

Everyone is missing the point, Nutting can't make money and put on a decent product. He has enough money to put on a decent product but he isn't willing to risk losing 100 million to improve the team. That is just how baseball works. The Pirates don't bring in enough revenue to put on a decent product. It was only recently that they started drafting the correct players players. Spending money on unproven players is the only way to win with a low payroll. Unfortunately, we haven't been too successful with our drafts. Alverez is still a work in progress at best. At worst he is a bust. How long has Walker taken to become a average major league player. Too long. Tabita isn't all that great. McCutchen, isn't exactly the star of the 2005 draft. Other players drafted that year are much bigger stars.

Don't be mad at Nutting. Be made a McClatchey for agreeing to the last bargaining agreement.

Wrong; Nutting recieves revenue sharing from MLB , along with, of course, all local revenue from ticket sales, concessions, broadcasting rights, etc. He is nowhere near "losing $100 million"; he's just too damn cheap to invest money to be competitive. He's making a lot of money putting out a pathetic excuse for a team on the field, while still turning a profit. As long as his terrible reign is enabled by these revenues, he has no reason to sell the team. I despise Nutting, and his clueless yes men in the front office.

[pman]

Originally Posted by robrobrob

Everyone is missing the point, Nutting can't make money and put on a decent product. He has enough money to put on a decent product but he isn't willing to risk losing 100 million to improve the team. That is just how baseball works. The Pirates don't bring in enough revenue to put on a decent product. It was only recently that they started drafting the correct players players. Spending money on unproven players is the only way to win with a low payroll. Unfortunately, we haven't been too successful with our drafts. Alverez is still a work in progress at best. At worst he is a bust. How long has Walker taken to become a average major league player. Too long. Tabita isn't all that great. McCutchen, isn't exactly the star of the 2005 draft. Other players drafted that year are much bigger stars.

Don't be mad at Nutting. Be made a McClatchey for agreeing to the last bargaining agreement.

I suppose you are talking about the clawback on mlb welfare which discourages spending. what's frustrating about the pirates is that the fan base clearly will respond when the product is put on the field. that said, in most businesses, the challenger doesn't compete by spending a lot on players. in baseball, a team has a lot of control over young players..and you're right, it's all about player development. if you look at the phillies, which set a record for most losses by a pro sports team right before they won the world series, they got there by homegrown talent...in fact, every year since their payroll has ballooned since the WS increased their revenues (and yet, they haven't won again). even the yankees won in large part due to homegrown talent (notably jeter and rivera). the fact is, you need a good core of homegrown talent to have it make sense to pay extra for a free agent.

[robrobrob]

Originally Posted by Lobick

Maybe, but not those drafted after him.

Jacoby Ellsbury. Drafted about ten picks later. No one in their right mind would pick McCuthen over him. Jay Bruce of the Reds has more power. Drafted right behind McCutchen. Both play center like our "star".

Still I am shocked that we picked 11th.

[robrobrob]

Originally Posted by hornet67

Wrong; Nutting recieves revenue sharing from MLB , along with, of course, all local revenue from ticket sales, concessions, broadcasting rights, etc. He is nowhere near "losing $100 million"; he's just too damn cheap to invest money to be competitive. He's making a lot of money putting out a pathetic excuse for a team on the field, while still turning a profit. As long as his terrible reign is enabled by these revenues, he has no reason to sell the team. I despise Nutting, and his clueless yes men in the front office.

I know he isn't losing 100 million, I figured we would have to spend 100 million more to become competitive instantly. Something that couldn't be done without losing a lot of money.

I think it is an assumption to say that Nutting is making a lot of money. What is a lot of money on an asset worth 300,000. Clearly, not the 25 million that he is making.

[robrobrob]

We need to start drafting bats and not pitchers since we haven't had much luck with pitchers.