Pittsburgh MSA migration "churn" with other MSAs and μSAs (2009-2010) (Reading: salary, living in)

[bradjl2009]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

I'm not Pittsburgh is very much on "the Working Class and Creative Class" NYC's Radar....Pittsburgh is now on the lips of a lot of (again Working /Creative Class) NY'ers.....because I brag about the burgh here to my circle, someone always cannot wait to tell me that they're either going to the Burgh or just came back and always a follow up with a line like "I had No Idea"....my reply usually goes something like "Yea you and the rest of the World Honey!"

Again right now the only people who are happy in NYC are those that can easily afford the life....Those that can't (85.999999%) are MISERABLE! with the eye gouging COL. so you can see how the Burgh is on their radars...When NYC media continues to hype a specific local it does take long for the residences to take notice.

That great to hear most people in NYC have such a positive opinion of Pittsburgh. If you want to see how many people are leaving NY just go to the Forbes county migration map. Almost every county in the NY metro area is nothing but red! If it wasn't for immigration, the NYC area would have probably had a large population drop on the 2010 census.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by bradjl2009

I like the city itself, but I don't like the surrounding suburban counties one bit. I think DC is probably the most sprawled out metros on the east coast.

Yeah, that's more or less my feeling (assuming by "city itself" you would also include the denser areas near DC in VA and MD).

Of course we shouldn't be throwing stones--Pittsburgh also has a dense core surrounded by some pretty sprawly suburbs, and most of the exceptions (older small towns along the rivers and such) have serious issues.

For me, what made all the difference is we could actually afford a nice lifestyle in the core part of the Pittsburgh area, not so much in DC.

[bradjl2009]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Agreed. It's a NooooooVA thing.

Everytime I drive through there and the nightmare traffic when going on vacation, I always think about how miserable I would be and how much I'd hate it if I lived there.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by bradjl2009

If it wasn't for immigration, the NYC area would have probably had a large population drop on the 2010 census.

To be fair, that is sort of how it works with major international immigration gateways. People come to cities like New York from all over the world, then eventually they or their children spread out a bit more. That results in a negative net domestic migration flow precisely because the positive net international migration flow is being channeled through the gateway city.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by bradjl2009

Everytime I drive through there and the nightmare traffic when going on vacation, I always think about how miserable I would be and how much I'd hate it if I lived there.

Traffic wasn't only congested at traditional rush-hour times, either. I'd battle lines at grocery stores and stoplights if I happened to have taken a Tuesday off.

[bradjl2009]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Yeah, that's more or less my feeling (assuming by "city itself" you would also include the denser areas near DC in VA and MD).

Of course we shouldn't be throwing stones--Pittsburgh also has a dense core surrounded by some pretty sprawly suburbs, and most of the exceptions (older small towns along the rivers and such) have serious issues.

For me, what made all the difference is we could actually afford a nice lifestyle in the core part of the Pittsburgh area, not so much in DC.

In a way, DC and Pittsburgh are similar that the city's size and population are both small compared to the metro area as a whole and both have some older cities/towns besides the core city. IMO the difference between DC and Pittsburgh's suburbs is that Pittsburgh's are older and not as upscale as many are in DC (the traffic there on a weekend is worse there than during rush hour here I've noticed too). I have seen housing costs on DC and you are much better cost wise with the same lifestyle in the Pittsburgh area.

[bradjl2009]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

To be fair, that is sort of how it works with major international immigration gateways. People come to cities like New York from all over the world, then eventually they or their children spread out a bit more. That results in a negative net domestic migration flow precisely because the positive net international migration flow is being channeled through the gateway city.

That's a good point. I'm not sure what the case is of who is leaving NY but I was thinking more that the people who were leaving tended to be retirees or families who couldn't take the high COL there.

[Blackbeauty212]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

To be fair, that is sort of how it works with major international immigration gateways. People come to cities like New York from all over the world, then eventually they or their children spread out a bit more. That results in a negative net domestic migration flow precisely because the positive net international migration flow is being channeled through the gateway city.

The difference is however these same immigrants are not staying and planting roots in NYC anymore because they can't afford it...

Its almost like as soon as they get off the boat they're outta here within 10yrs time at most. NYC Skyrocketed COL has made this place almost 100% transient...Too Transient that it's losing the same character that once made it so great....Now its all Mainstream and Generic

Read about how people are scared of the loss of the Creative Class here.

Jeremiah's Vanishing New York: Find a New City

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...FREE/311149985

[bradjl2009]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Traffic wasn't only congested at traditional rush-hour times, either. I'd battle lines at grocery stores and stoplights if I happened to have taken a Tuesday off.

I'll never forget in 2008 we drove through NoVA on our way back from the beach and traffic was worse at noon on a Saturday there than I've even seen it at rush hour in Pittsburgh.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by bradjl2009

I have seen housing costs on DC and you are much better cost wise with the same lifestyle in the Pittsburgh area.

Exactly why I chose Pittsburgh. I could have bought a 1-BR free-standing single-family home behind my current apartment for $45,000. I live within walking distance of Downtown Pittsburgh in a safe neighborhood. Where could I have bought even a 1-BR condo at that price point in a safe neighborhood within walking distance of The District? (Crickets chirping).

This is why I find it interesting, to say the least, that Pittsburgh has become a magnet for NYC transplants while DC has become a magnet for Pittsburgh transplants. People who grew up in and around NYC appreciate the better "bang for your buck" factor in Pittsburgh. People who grew up in Pittsburgh don't realize how affordable we truly are and blindly rush to DC, thinking that by making a $60,000 salary there vs. a $40,000 salary here that they'll be living the "high life". Believe me, when I saw the job offer listing my $41,000 starting salary with my former employer while still living in Scranton my jaw dropped. That was almost the salary my father made as a business manager, and I was only 22. Then I moved to NoVA and had to skip meals because I didn't realize the MEDIAN household income there was in the six-figures, putting me barely above the adjusted poverty line there as I struggled to afford a 1-BR apartment in deep suburbia. I wonder how many lifelong Pittsburghers have moved to DC following the money trail only to realize their spending power actually decreased despite a marginal salary bump?