Best Neiborhood (Pittsburgh, Millvale, Edgewood: renter, home, buying)

[chielgirl]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Overnight? No. In the next couple years? Also no.

But the process could start within, say, 10-20 years. And once it starts in earnest, rapid change will likely happen within years, not decades.

Again, this isn't theoretical: many other "inner city" neighborhoods in the United States had experienced similarly high levels socioeconomic distress for many decades before they started gentrifying. But once the gentrification process starts, that long history of distress isn't an automatic impediment to rapid change, as has been proven many times.



Well, as noted I do live in Wilkinsburg.

But the more obvious answer to your question is that saying change could come rapidly to a place in the conceivable future is not the same thing as saying that such change has already occurred.

C'mon, you live in Regent Square part of Wilkinsburg where you pay W taxes, but you chose the Regent Square part because it's not crime ridden and it's not violent.

You told someone who was not familiar with Pittsburgh to look at these areas.
That was horrible advice.
Just because you want improvement in these areas, doesn't mean that these areas aren't extremely violent.
I still can't believe that you recommended them.

Take off your blinders and take your advice yourself.
Why don't you or your parents move to the horrid parts of Homewood since you think they're such a bargain?

Frankly, I don't care what kind of crime rates other cities have. I do care about crime in Pittsburgh.
Next thing, you'll be comparing us to Darfur to get a positive spin.
Pittsburgh has serious problems with crime.
Some quite violent and other areas with a lot of petty annoyances and potential for escalation.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by interested_burgher

People aren't moving into the city of Pittsburgh, they're leaving for a variety of reasons.

Oh, lots of people are moving into the City. Even though the City lost population on net from 2000 to 2010, it gained a lot of population specifically among young adults. And for reasons we have discussed here many times before, I think there is good reason to believe the City is now actually gaining people on net, not just among young adults--but we'll find out more on that subject a little later this year.

Where are the people who live there now going to go should re-development occur?

With the right policies, some will stay--note these neighborhoods have so much excess capacity right now that a lot of new people can be added without subtracting existing people.

Some people will also leave. Given the patterns a lot of cities are experiencing, it is likely many of those people will end up in suburbs, although some may also leave the MSA entirely.

It's about time East Liberty has retail potential. It's in the middle of everything for goodness' sake.

There is also a lot of investment in housing in East Liberty. Generally, there will always be an obvious explanation after the fact for why a neighborhood goes from the bad list to the good list, and the future reasons for all these neighborhoods we have been discussing fall in the same category: they are all well-located in various ways.

Also, I keep reading praise on here for areas like Bloomfield and Friendship. Apparently those people don't read the Pittsburgh Police blotter.

Nor apparently do the people filling up all the housing units in those communities and increasing housing prices.

Again, real demand trends will trump theories about what demand trends should be every time.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by chielgirl

C'mon, you live in Regent Square part of Wilkinsburg where you pay W taxes, but you chose the Regent Square part because it's not crime ridden and it's not violent.

That actually was not our primary consideration. We like being within walking distance of Downtown Regent Square and Frick Park, and we also like being on our express bus route to Downtown, and there was also a particular house that became available which we liked. I'm not saying we would not take crime rates into consideration if they had actually arisen as an issue, but not surprisingly a lot of the other factors we cared about led us to consider a house where crime rates weren't an issue, so we actually didn't have to think about it.

But again, all this is a little beside the point since I have noted multiple times now that of course current crime rates can be relevant to individual decisions, but that is not the same thing as saying current crime rates will constrain future investment and development patterns.

You told someone who was not familiar with Pittsburgh to look at these areas.

No, I did not. To the OP I recommended Bloomfield and Greenfield. If you are referring to my post #50, that was a follow on to post #49, and was about neighborhoods that might gentrify in the future.

Having clarified that point, I trust you understand the rest of your post was based on an incorrect premise.

[chielgirl]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

No, I did not. To the OP I recommended Bloomfield and Greenfield. If you are referring to my post #50, that was a follow on to post #49, and was about neighborhoods that might gentrify in the future.

Having clarified that point, I trust you understand the rest of your post was based on an incorrect premise.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I'd nominate the Hill, Larimer, and Homewood too--collectively, there is a lot of territory left in the "Greater East End" ripe for gentrification, which will in fact likely follow if properties in other neighborhoods continue to appreciate at recent rates.

I stand by my comments.
Both Wilkinsburg (where you live in the Regent Square section) and Swissvale (where I own in the Swisshelm Park section) are good parts of those areas.
Homewood is not, nor will it be in any time in the next decade or two.

The OP is about buying a house for around $100k and areas in which to look.


Heck, it took Highland Park 30 years to begin to turn around.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by chielgirl

I stand by my comments.

You are taking my post #50 out of context, and in context I think it was clear what I was discussing.

Nonetheless, I am willing to credit you with an honest misunderstanding, up until the point that I explicitly clarified what I had previously been stating. So I trust that having explicitly clarified myself, repeatedly, this issue is now over.

[interested_burgher]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

That actually was not our primary consideration. We like being within walking distance of Downtown Regent Square and Frick Park, and we also like being on our express bus route to Downtown, and there was also a particular house that became available which we liked. I'm not saying we would not take crime rates into consideration if they had actually arisen as an issue, but not surprisingly a lot of the other factors we cared about led us to consider a house where crime rates weren't an issue, so we actually didn't have to think about it.

But again, all this is a little beside the point since I have noted multiple times now that of course current crime rates can be relevant to individual decisions, but that is not the same thing as saying current crime rates will constrain future investment and development patterns.



No, I did not. To the OP I recommended Bloomfield and Greenfield. If you are referring to my post #50, that was a follow on to post #49, and was about neighborhoods that might gentrify in the future.

Having clarified that point, I trust you understand the rest of your post was based on an incorrect premise.

Brian TH, bottom line is you're looking to buy at a bargain and sell at a premium. Nothing wrong with that. But don't spread misinformation to people unfamiliar with the neighborhoods of Pittsburgh that Homewood is up and coming based on information about some hamlet in Detroit or St. Louis. It's not. Everybody knows it. It's the most dangerous area of the city, and there's no evidence to suggest that will change. Period!

[interested_burgher]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Oh, lots of people are moving into the City. Even though the City lost population on net from 2000 to 2010, it gained a lot of population specifically among young adults. And for reasons we have discussed here many times before, I think there is good reason to believe the City is now actually gaining people on net, not just among young adults--but we'll find out more on that subject a little later this year.



With the right policies, some will stay--note these neighborhoods have so much excess capacity right now that a lot of new people can be added without subtracting existing people.

Some people will also leave. Given the patterns a lot of cities are experiencing, it is likely many of those people will end up in suburbs, although some may also leave the MSA entirely.



There is also a lot of investment in housing in East Liberty. Generally, there will always be an obvious explanation after the fact for why a neighborhood goes from the bad list to the good list, and the future reasons for all these neighborhoods we have been discussing fall in the same category: they are all well-located in various ways.



Nor apparently do the people filling up all the housing units in those communities and increasing housing prices.

Again, real demand trends will trump theories about what demand trends should be every time.

Bloomfield is full of a bunch of renters who don't want to live in Oakland. They are either college kids, other young adults who can't get jobs outside the service industry, or people who've lived there their entire lives. I guarantee the latter hate what Bloomfield has become......a drug-ridden wannabe South Side with people who have no respect for the neighborhood, because they're just passing through and have no long-term intention of staying or bettering the neighborhood.

[steindle]

Originally Posted by interested_burgher

Bloomfield is full of a bunch of renters who don't want to live in Oakland. They are either college kids, other young adults who can't get jobs outside the service industry, or people who've lived there their entire lives. I guarantee the latter hate what Bloomfield has become......a drug-ridden wannabe South Side with people who have no respect for the neighborhood, because they're just passing through and have no long-term intention of staying or bettering the neighborhood.

This is a typically City-Data, clueless assessment. I guess it must be the "disrespectful" "druggie" "renters" repeatedly buying houses for $100k+ at a high turnover in Bloomfield right now.

I don't mean to keep the sky from falling on you, though -- by all means, continue.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by stburr91

I think that both Wilkinsburg and Swissvale are going to become an affordable option for those that become priced out of the East End neighborhoods. Both have the look and feel of East End neighborhoods, with their older homes, central business districts, as well as having good public transportation. I really think it's just a matter of time before people start looking past the bad reputations, and start see all that these neighborhoods have to offer.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I'd nominate the Hill, Larimer, and Homewood too--collectively, there is a lot of territory left in the "Greater East End" ripe for gentrification, which will in fact likely follow if properties in other neighborhoods continue to appreciate at recent rates.

Those two posts were right in a row.

Is it seriously that difficult to figure out that Brian was responding to stburr91 and saying that Homewood has a chance to eventually gentrify if other east end neighborhoods continue to do so?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by interested_burgher

Brian TH, bottom line is you're looking to buy at a bargain and sell at a premium.

Actually, that would be more like a bonus for us. We're saving enough in terms of mortgage interest, opportunity cost of capital, and income tax savings (versus the City) for us to think our place was worth buying. If we get extra appreciation that would be fine, of course, but not necessary.

But don't spread misinformation to people unfamiliar with the neighborhoods of Pittsburgh that Homewood is up and coming

And since I did not do that, that shouldn't be an issue.