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Old 03-24-2012, 07:28 AM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
14,169 posts, read 22,590,072 times
Reputation: 17328

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I moved away from Pittsburgh when I was 16, so I never really had the opportunity to explore the areas around Pittsburgh too much. Last time I was there, though, about a year and a half ago, I took a quick drive up to Youngstown and back. It was nighttime, so my memory is literally kind of dim, but I could feel a psychological shift once I passed downtown Youngstown on I-680. Coming up the Ohio Turnpike and I-680 from the south, the area felt like an extension of western Pennsylvania with all the hills and trees, and I could still detect Pittsburgh behind me as I drove.

Downtown Youngstown is located in a valley, and sort of reminded me of Altoona from I-99. North of there, though, it flattened out pretty quickly, and there seemed to be fewer trees. I ended up on I-80 westbound, and I turned around at the first exit I arrived at to head back east. As I exited, I felt like I was in Cleveland's orbit, feeling its gravity just over the northwest horizon. Sightlines on I-80 eastbound seemed to be longer than they were on the Pennsylvania or Ohio Turnpikes, and the terrain seemed flatter as well, not really changing much in elevation until I crossed back into Pennsylvania.

Basically, if Boardman, Campbell, Struthers, Poland and Columbiana are in Pittsburgh's orbit, then Newton Falls, Warren, Niles, Cortland and Austintown are in Cleveland's orbit.
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Cortland, Ohio
3,343 posts, read 10,891,747 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speagles84 View Post
The point I'm making is, neither of the cities are large enough to stand on their own. Even when Youngstown's population was at 170k in the 40's, Pittsburgh was near 700k and Cleveland was over 800k. Today they have declined similarly, although Pittsburgh has turned around very recently.
Youngstown and the Mahoning Valley do stand on their own. They may be small, but the culture is somewhat different here than in Ctown or the Burgh and we have our own economy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Right Side_TX View Post
Good post

My Father's whole family is from Youngstown " most in Poland Village area" It's a very divided family in regard to attachments to Pittsburgh Vs Cleveland. Split pretty evenly I'd say. Anytime we flew to Youngstown to visit his family, Pittsburgh is where we flew into. Even to this day when I go visit them, I use Pittsburgh as my airport. My first NFL game was at Three Rivers, thus making me a lifetime member of Steeler Nation. " Much to the dismay of my Father, a Browns fan"

I've only been to Cleveland like 3 times, vs Pittsburgh which is more times than I can count. We alway's seemed to gravitate towards Pittsburgh. I can understand the whole Cleveland being in the same State thing, and I believe that does play a major role. Especially when it comes to Pro Sport teams, Colleges, Government etc. But to me personally Pittsburgh always felt closer. Youngstown to me felt more tied to the Pittsburgh Metro. Cleveland alway's seemed like a distant city, while Pittsburgh was right up the road.

Pittsburgh is one of my favorite places in the Country. Guess a big reason for that is all those trips and times I've had in the Burgh over the years. I have a big attachment to the City. Cleveland on the other hand, is just another City I've been to a few times.
It's funny, it seems people your father's age and old are Browns fans because that's who was good back in the 50s and 60s and the younger generation is Steeler fans.

I love Poland Village! It's funny, i've been to Cleveland more times than I can count, but I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've been to Pittsburgh. My dad took us to a Pirate/Braves game at 3 Rivers, I saw the first Cleveland/Pittsburgh inter-league game back in 1995 (?), we took a steam train from Akron to Pittsburgh when I was a kid, I've road the incline a few times, and I've been there for the Pittsburgh Marathon.

It's funny, when friends and family fly they probably fly into Pittsburgh 75% of the time. I've been to both Cleveland and Pittsburgh's airports so many times I cant' even tell you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
What IS true appears to be a fairly even split. What SHOULD be true is we should aggressively pursue bringing Youngstown into our orbit. In other words, if Cleveland and Pittsburgh are France and Germany, the Youngstown area is Alsace-Lorraine.
There are movements out there trying to do this sort of thing:
Cleveland Plus (http://www.clevelandplus.com/indexcz.asp - broken link)
TechBelt
Cleveland + Pittsburgh = Cleveburgh? | Scene and Heard: Scene's News Blog


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyev View Post
Because it's New Castle's employment center. At one point employment was pretty much self-contained, or people would commute to Youngstown. Now just about everyone I know that lives in New Castle commutes to Cranberry for employment.
I know a lot of people from New Castle that work in the Youngstown area, in fact a girl in our accounting dept. at work lives in the Mohawk School District. There are also many from the Sharon/Hermitage/Greenville areas that work in Warren/Niles. When I worked at Delphi Packard Electric in Warren there were a ton of Pennslytuckians!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
I moved away from Pittsburgh when I was 16, so I never really had the opportunity to explore the areas around Pittsburgh too much. Last time I was there, though, about a year and a half ago, I took a quick drive up to Youngstown and back. It was nighttime, so my memory is literally kind of dim, but I could feel a psychological shift once I passed downtown Youngstown on I-680. Coming up the Ohio Turnpike and I-680 from the south, the area felt like an extension of western Pennsylvania with all the hills and trees, and I could still detect Pittsburgh behind me as I drove.

Downtown Youngstown is located in a valley, and sort of reminded me of Altoona from I-99. North of there, though, it flattened out pretty quickly, and there seemed to be fewer trees. I ended up on I-80 westbound, and I turned around at the first exit I arrived at to head back east. As I exited, I felt like I was in Cleveland's orbit, feeling its gravity just over the northwest horizon. Sightlines on I-80 eastbound seemed to be longer than they were on the Pennsylvania or Ohio Turnpikes, and the terrain seemed flatter as well, not really changing much in elevation until I crossed back into Pennsylvania.

Basically, if Boardman, Campbell, Struthers, Poland and Columbiana are in Pittsburgh's orbit, then Newton Falls, Warren, Niles, Cortland and Austintown are in Cleveland's orbit.
There actually are a ton of trees north of Youngstown and you would be surprised if you got off the highway and took the back roads to Cleveland how hilly it is between Youngstown and Cleveland. Places like Burton, Chardon, Chesterland, etc are pretty hilly. There are even a couple of small ski places up that way.

BTW, your last sentence is spot on! Maybe I'll do a facebook poll of the Youngstown area and see which city my friends feel more connected to...
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:05 AM
 
20,273 posts, read 32,869,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CortlandGirl79 View Post
There are movements out there trying to do this sort of thing
Hopefully it works out better than the European Union!

I actually think the Youngstown area is sort of key to whether or not something like "Cleveburgh" (or Pittsland as I prefer) materializes. The core Pittsburgh and Cleveland metros are really too far apart to naturally operate as something like a CSA, ala Baltimore and Washington. But if the Youngstown area really revitalized and started developing even more economic ties both ways, maybe with the help of a reasonably rapid train line from PIT to CLE via Youngstown, then it might make sense to talk about an extended region.
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:30 AM
 
Location: About 10 miles north of Pittsburgh International
2,458 posts, read 4,183,878 times
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The state of Cleveburgh, with Youngstown as its capital...
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Old 03-24-2012, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Washington County, PA
4,240 posts, read 4,885,061 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alleghenyangel View Post
What do you mean they aren't large enough to stand on their own? Youngstown has always been smaller than Pgh and Cleveland, but it has always been an independent city and not a form of suburb. I'd say the same goes for Steubenville, Wheeling, Johnstown, etc.
What I mean by that is, When you say you're from western PA or northeast OH you would say you're from Pittsburgh or Cleveland area. Not New Castle or Youngstown. I know Youngstown is its own city, but the whole area between Cleveland and Pittsburgh is similar to the San Francisco/San Jose/Oakland area. Two large cities with smaller cities are lots of suburbs in between. If the whole area was converted to one CSA, it would attact alot more attention to the area as a whole.
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Old 03-24-2012, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Washington County, PA
4,240 posts, read 4,885,061 times
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[quote=BrianTH;23547348]
or Pittsland as I prefer materializes. quote] Haha i agree with this one.
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Old 03-24-2012, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Cortland, Ohio
3,343 posts, read 10,891,747 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchdigger View Post
The state of Cleveburgh, with Youngstown as its capital...
Yes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by speagles84 View Post
What I mean by that is, When you say you're from western PA or northeast OH you would say you're from Pittsburgh or Cleveland area. Not New Castle or Youngstown. I know Youngstown is its own city, but the whole area between Cleveland and Pittsburgh is similar to the San Francisco/San Jose/Oakland area. Two large cities with smaller cities are lots of suburbs in between. If the whole area was converted to one CSA, it would attact alot more attention to the area as a whole.
Actually when I'm in Cleveland I say I'm from the Youngstown area. When I'm out of state I say I'm from the Youngstown area, which is halfway between Cleveland and Pittsburgh, if the people aren't sure where Youngstown is in Ohio. I think you'll find that many people have heard of Youngstown, they just might not know where it is exactly in Ohio.
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Old 03-24-2012, 11:52 AM
 
20,273 posts, read 32,869,081 times
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Smaller MSAs/CSAs often get little love from people who live in larger MSAs, but they are defined more or less objectively based on commuting patterns--so if the feds say Youngstown is its own MSA/CSA, I believe them.
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Cortland, Ohio
3,343 posts, read 10,891,747 times
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^I'd rep you if i could.
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,202,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CortlandGirl79 View Post
Yes!



Actually when I'm in Cleveland I say I'm from the Youngstown area. When I'm out of state I say I'm from the Youngstown area, which is halfway between Cleveland and Pittsburgh, if the people aren't sure where Youngstown is in Ohio. I think you'll find that many people have heard of Youngstown, they just might not know where it is exactly in Ohio.
Not out here in Colorado. And just to add some western perspective, most people out here think the whole area is "the east". They don't split hairs over PA/OH. Pennsylvania is east, Ohio is east, even Indiana is east to these westerners.
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