What neigborhoods are heading downhill? (Pittsburgh, Allentown: section 8, crime rates, homes)

[Uptown kid]

Declining "ghettos": Marshall-Shadeland, parts of Penn Hills, most of Mt. Oliver Boro, Knoxville, Carrick, Allentown, a small part of West Homestead, parts of: Swissvale & Sheraden.
Off the deep end=continual decline: Northview Heights, Perry Hilltop, California-Kirkbride, the McKees Rocks projects, Fairywood, Arlington, Arlington Heights, Beltzhoover, Homewood, the East Hills, Larimer, parts of Wilkinsburg Lincoln-Lemington, Terrace Village, Bedford Dwelings, Middle Hill, South Oakland, Glen Hazel & Homestead.
Upswing: East Liberty north of the Blvd, Upper Manchester, Crawford-Roberts Hill & Hazelwood, Garfield, "HoodTown" in Central Northside & East Dutchtown to a small degree...

Notably stagnant areas: most of McKees Rocks-Stowe, Uptown, Spring Garden, Carnegie, Elspen, Bon Air, Sharpsburg, parts of Brentwood, Etna & parts of Munhall.
Nice areas in noteable decline: southern part of Brighton Heights, part of Perry North (Watson Boulevard to Waldrof Street), part of Mt. Washington (south of Bailey Ave-east of Ruth St), Mt. Oliver & certain parts of Elliot.
Gritty-safe with "potental": Millvale, parts of Stowe Township, McKees Rocks Bottoms, Troy Hill, Larwanceville, part of Bloomfield & Greenfield

[ElijahAstin]

I would say Wilkins, Churchill, Forest Hills, and Monroeville qualify as stagnant to declining. Much of the Eastern suburbs is.

[escilade18]

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

I would say Wilkins, Churchill, Forest Hills, and Monroeville qualify as stagnant to declining. Much of the Eastern suburbs is.

sad thing is, from what I have heard Churchill used to be considered similar to Mt.Lebanon. Woodland Hills really killed that community sadly although the good housing stock with relative safety might save it from the fate places such as Penn Hills are having

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

What about some of the more anonymous "middle class" neighborhoods... like Lincoln Place, Banksville or Windgap?

This is a good point.

The issue with these faceless "middle class" (working-class really, but with older, established homeowners, not renters) neighborhoods is few new people want to live there. They don't appeal to gentrifiers or hipsters, because they mostly lack nice old houses, good public transit options, or walkable commercial areas with anything going on. They don't appeal to suburbanites, because although they are suburban in character, you still pay city taxes and go to city schools. The biggest draw I'm aware of is for city employees, who are required to live within the city - some want a suburban experience within urban confines. Practically speaking, however, there are probably only enough city employees to fill up demand in one or two of Pittsburgh's modest surburban-style neighborhoods. Houses may pass down with families, but when an elderly person dies with no kin who want to live there, it's going to get more and more difficult to fill those vacancies - at least with homeowners.

Originally Posted by Evergrey

I would certainly disagree with the characterization of Hill District as "rock bottom"... that neighborhood has seems massive amounts of construction and investment in the past decade...

Agreed. Although one shouldn't just take the change in white population as an indication of changing fortunes of a neighborhood, over the last decade, the white population increased, both in absolute numbers and as a percentage, in all five of the Hill District's neighborhoods.

Oh, and since someone mentioned Fairywood - it's gone, AFAIK. They tore down the project and put up market rate housing, and there's been essentially a 100% turnover in population.

[Aqua Teen Carl]

It seems to me that the hilltop hoods are getting hit the hardest with decline with the east hills in a close second.

[Craziaskowboi]

We all know that the East End and South Side are mostly reestablished and healthy, and the North Side is mostly in transition for the better. That leaves the South Hills and West End as areas of relative disinvestment that are in danger of decline, if they're not declining already.

[ML North]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

I would certainly disagree with the characterization of Hill District as "rock bottom"... that neighborhood has seems massive amounts of construction and investment in the past decade... and holds great potential with the redevelopment of the Civic Arena site. Hill District is certainly not "stable"... but it's seen a dramatic improvement from its darkest days. Bluff/Uptown also has promise... though I don't think Consol Center and Duquesne's projects have spun off into neighborhood development yet.

I agree with you. As someone who spends a decent amount of time in that neighborhood, particularly in Crawford Square and Uptown, I rather like the Hill District. Centre Avenue, inside of Kirkpatrick is coming along nicely with some renovated storefronts and the library. The new Shop 'N Save will be a solid addition to the business district and will perhaps bring some residents from Downtown into the neighborhood. The Hill District is a long way from rock bottom.

[Paint It Pink]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

We all know that the East End and South Side are mostly reestablished and healthy, and the North Side is mostly in transition for the better. That leaves the South Hills and West End as areas of relative disinvestment that are in danger of decline, if they're not declining already.

I'm guessing you don't live in South Side. The nightlife is stable, the college dorms are stable, but the living certainly isn't. Unless you enjoy police and fire sirens at all hours of the day and night, constant traffic, violence, drunks, and plenty of drugs, you won't like living here. I honestly can't wait to move, and I've lived here my entire life. It's gone from quiet to 11 in about ten years time.

I'd say Carrick is fast declining, alot of poverty and drugs, violence are taken over the area. Mt Oliver, Arlington have always been pretty bad, so that's nothing new.

[airwave09]

Originally Posted by Paint It Pink

I'm guessing you don't live in South Side. The nightlife is stable, the college dorms are stable, but the living certainly isn't. Unless you enjoy police and fire sirens at all hours of the day and night, constant traffic, violence, drunks, and plenty of drugs, you won't like living here. I honestly can't wait to move, and I've lived here my entire life. It's gone from quiet to 11 in about ten years time.

I'd say Carrick is fast declining, alot of poverty and drugs, violence are taken over the area. Mt Oliver, Arlington have always been pretty bad, so that's nothing new.

That's just because the Zone 3 police station was moved to the flats recently, and the fire station is there as well. The other stuff is nothing beyond what you would see in a central 24/7 neighborhood in any other city.

[robrobrob]

Originally Posted by eschaton

This is a good point.

The issue with these faceless "middle class" (working-class really, but with older, established homeowners, not renters) neighborhoods is few new people want to live there. They don't appeal to gentrifiers or hipsters, because they mostly lack nice old houses, good public transit options, or walkable commercial areas with anything going on. They don't appeal to suburbanites, because although they are suburban in character, you still pay city taxes and go to city schools. The biggest draw I'm aware of is for city employees, who are required to live within the city - some want a suburban experience within urban confines. Practically speaking, however, there are probably only enough city employees to fill up demand in one or two of Pittsburgh's modest surburban-style neighborhoods. Houses may pass down with families, but when an elderly person dies with no kin who want to live there, it's going to get more and more difficult to fill those vacancies - at least with homeowners.



Agreed. Although one shouldn't just take the change in white population as an indication of changing fortunes of a neighborhood, over the last decade, the white population increased, both in absolute numbers and as a percentage, in all five of the Hill District's neighborhoods.

Oh, and since someone mentioned Fairywood - it's gone, AFAIK. They tore down the project and put up market rate housing, and there's been essentially a 100% turnover in population.

I think Lincoln Place is still in pretty good shape. Thankfully, a lot of cops still live there. Most of the houses are well kept but ther are some that clearly need a lot of work. Not everyone wants a 3 bedroom 1.5 bath house anymore but they are priced cheap. Most go for between 60,000-110,000. Mifflin Elementary School is far from awful and you go to Allderdice for high school. In short if is a very safe and affordable city neighborhood. If you are Catholic, it feeds to St. Theresa's in Munhall which is still a thriving Parish although no where near what it was when the Mills were booming.