Spring Garden: the neighborhood photo tour

[Caladium]

Something I'm curious about is how did this part of town get the name Spring Garden? Do these homes have garden plots behind them? Or, maybe a large municipal garden in the area? Or, since this is an older part of town, does it harken back to a time when gardens were more prevalent?

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I think you will find many of us make better allies than antagonists, even if we have the poor taste to live in homes built after 1900.

I like four squares, Brian. I was just trying to point out that they are common to many cities. To me, they are the depression glass of housing. I live in a neighborhood that is full of them, and I would like to own one. But my point was that the housing in neighborhoods like Spring Garden is a style that you don't see many places other than Pittsburgh. It's not that it's Victorian. The style of those homes is very different than what you see in other Victorian cities. Plus, it's fading away and not really appreciated. I fail to see how it's antagonistic for me to state an opinion on a housing style, but it's not antagonistic for several other posters to suggest that the housing in Spring Garden should be demolished. Oh, and my house was built in 1907. Lol

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by alleghenyangel

I like four squares, Brian. I was just trying to point out that they are common to many cities.

I think choosing phrases like "dime a dozen" to refer to such housing and stating "But everyone thinks the big brick houses are the only ones worth saving. Whatever," go beyond making the case you want to make and into unnecessary antagonism, and are likely counterproductive to the ends you want to achieve. Of course it is true lots of people are equally or more dismissive of the housing in neighborhoods like Spring Garden, but if you sink to their level you are not going to be building support for preserving those neighborhoods.

[PreservationPioneer]

Okay, granted, that wasn't the most graceful way of wording my feelings about the buildings, but I was antagonized by the other posts. But I do have a point, and that is that the more modest houses are worth saving, too.

[Synergy1]

I did live in the surrounding area of Philly for a lifetime of years. Worked in and around Center City and I must say that Spring Garden was not one neighbohod for me or my family. Wife worked for the University of Penn for almost 30 years. We didn't now all the Phiily areas but the areas we did know were the Spring Garden and the Art Museum areas. My wife has friends who live in the Art Museum, South Street and high numbered Locust street areas. After the revival of the Art Museum and South Street places the professionals began to take hold, but not in the Spring Garden area.

I agree with BrianTH in there is no pressing need for a park. I do see the need to educate the people of Philly and believe we may go further with restoring a great located area by using a proven method. Of course, the economy really doesn't help at all but maybe one year it can and will.

What if the City began auctioning off the vacant properties with a stipulation that the new owners will renovate to own or lease to new tennants within 3 or 4 years? New jopbs for the City so maybe and just maybe their NEW and IMPROVED tax structure may benefit the residents. I can see a few million dollars worth of new revenue in homes waiting to receive a revival. What if they gave away the remaing homes? Hey, the Univ of Penn and Drexel Univ are with in an eyeshot...

[ferraris]

Today I learned there's a Spring Garden neighborhood in Philadelphia, too.

Synergy, you are in the Pittsburgh forum though, and this thread is about the Spring Garden neighborhood in Pittsburgh.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by alleghenyangel

But I do have a point, and that is that the more modest houses are worth saving, too.

I 100% agree and I hope it was clear I was offering constructive criticism in terms of your rhetoric precisely because I support your conclusion.

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I 100% agree and I hope it was clear I was offering constructive criticism in terms of your rhetoric precisely because I support your conclusion.

Yes, I know.

[Q-tip motha]

Originally Posted by alleghenyangel

I like four squares, Brian. I was just trying to point out that they are common to many cities. To me, they are the depression glass of housing. I live in a neighborhood that is full of them, and I would like to own one. But my point was that the housing in neighborhoods like Spring Garden is a style that you don't see many places other than Pittsburgh. It's not that it's Victorian. The style of those homes is very different than what you see in other Victorian cities. Plus, it's fading away and not really appreciated. I fail to see how it's antagonistic for me to state an opinion on a housing style, but it's not antagonistic for several other posters to suggest that the housing in Spring Garden should be demolished. Oh, and my house was built in 1907. Lol

I figure I might as well jump in on the debate.

Any neighborhood will become what you and others make it. Even if its a little semi secluded place like Spring Garden. That is of course unless you're trying to make it a fixer upper that you can flip at some point for a nice payday...if that's the case you're better off listening to curtis. I hear all the time about the supposed crime in my neighborhood or the property values...etc. I just don't see it. Then again I didn't see it in other places like the north side or the hill district either, but unfortunately the perception keeps people from realizing the potential of these places (thus far anyway).

Now here's the sad part: Spring Garden's housing stock means that a lot of those places are going to be lost no matter what. The cost of renovating at some point just isn't worth it for some of these properties, and the old frame buildings are more going to be more prone to this. You can repoint brick, and put wall anchors in. The wood frames are much less sustainable if not properly maintained over the hundred years that many of these places have been standing. The glass half full way to look at this is that in the not too distant future there will be a lot of cheap land available in that area for building newer structures that reflect the original architecture of the neighborhood. Examples of this (probably not the best in terms of aesthetics, but they are there regardless) exist on Wicklines Lane in between Troy Hill in Spring Garden:

pittsburgh - Google Maps

That very same cheap land that provides the blank canvas for the neighborhood to be reinvented also provides the possibility for the current residents to expand their lot for yards or off street parking that will make the neighborhood more convenient for those living there. It could very well emphasize the "garden" in the neighborhood's name.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by Q-tip motha

Now here's the sad part: Spring Garden's housing stock means that a lot of those places are going to be lost no matter what. The cost of renovating at some point just isn't worth it for some of these properties, and the old frame buildings are more going to be more prone to this. You can repoint brick, and put wall anchors in. The wood frames are much less sustainable if not properly maintained over the hundred years that many of these places have been standing. The glass half full way to look at this is that in the not too distant future there will be a lot of cheap land available in that area for building newer structures that reflect the original architecture of the neighborhood. Examples of this (probably not the best in terms of aesthetics, but they are there regardless) exist on Wicklines Lane in between Troy Hill in Spring Garden.

That very same cheap land that provides the blank canvas for the neighborhood to be reinvented also provides the possibility for the current residents to expand their lot for yards or off street parking that will make the neighborhood more convenient for those living there. It could very well emphasize the "garden" in the neighborhood's name.

I really like those new houses on Wicklines. You make some great points about Spring Garden. I think the quality of the housing will retard progress for awhile until it decays so much that the neighborhood is essentially a blank canvas for new development... which could yield some exciting possibilities in FutureBurgh.

Originally Posted by eschaton

Spring Garden suffers the same issue the neighboring areas do - it's on the far side of the highway from the rest of Pittsburgh, and also cut off from the shore by 28. I think unless East Deutschtown stages a comeback, Spring Garden doesn't have a chance, as the lower residential portion is very solidly connected to it, and I can't see the outer portion making any sort of comeback at all.

Great points. Spring Garden and adjacent areas are in the stranglehold of the 279 canyon and 28's riverfront-destroying trajectory. This will probably be one of the last areas of the city proper to see any real revitalization.

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

The housing stock up in Spring Garden is strictly bottom of the barrel.

Agreed. Many of Spring Garden's houses were "born ugly", and so many have been vacant and decaying for years. There is too much negative inertia and not enough potential here. It will likely remain a rotting time capsule.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Anyway, I'm not against parks in general, but in this case "down the hill" from the upper level North Side communities you already have the Commons and we are in the process of developing parks along both sides of the Allegheny, and then of course there are parks "up the hill" as well, which are arguably underutilized as it is. I'd note there probably is a park premium in Pittsburgh too, but I'd guess it may be less percentage-wise than a lot of places, because for largely topographic reasons we are pretty well-endowed with parks as well as a lot more unofficial green spaces (e.g., on undevelopable slopes).

So in my view there isn't a pressing need for another big park in that area--but if really turned out in the next few decades that no one wanted to invest in Spring Garden to restore old units and infill new units, perhaps we could revisit the idea.

Pittsburgh has more than enough parkland and "green space" as it is. The turbulent topography dictates that there is almost always some sort of wild greenery nearby. You're right that there is probably less a premium for park adjacency (as well as "vistas") in PGH due to the ubiquity of such features.

Originally Posted by Caladium

Something I'm curious about is how did this part of town get the name Spring Garden? Do these homes have garden plots behind them? Or, maybe a large municipal garden in the area? Or, since this is an older part of town, does it harken back to a time when gardens were more prevalent?

That shall remain a mystery.

Originally Posted by Synergy1

I did live in the surrounding area of Philly for a lifetime of years. Worked in and around Center City and I must say that Spring Garden was not one neighbohod for me or my family. Wife worked for the University of Penn for almost 30 years. We didn't now all the Phiily areas but the areas we did know were the Spring Garden and the Art Museum areas. My wife has friends who live in the Art Museum, South Street and high numbered Locust street areas. After the revival of the Art Museum and South Street places the professionals began to take hold, but not in the Spring Garden area.

I agree with BrianTH in there is no pressing need for a park. I do see the need to educate the people of Philly and believe we may go further with restoring a great located area by using a proven method. Of course, the economy really doesn't help at all but maybe one year it can and will.

What if the City began auctioning off the vacant properties with a stipulation that the new owners will renovate to own or lease to new tennants within 3 or 4 years? New jopbs for the City so maybe and just maybe their NEW and IMPROVED tax structure may benefit the residents. I can see a few million dollars worth of new revenue in homes waiting to receive a revival. What if they gave away the remaing homes? Hey, the Univ of Penn and Drexel Univ are with in an eyeshot...

This is a fascinating response. Thank you for your input.