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If you expect more than the lowest common denominator at McD's, then you are a bit short sighted.
I don't understand this way of thinking. That doesn't make it acceptable. And that McDonald's is particularly bad. There's a broad spectrum of McDonald's quality; some actually offer a pleasant experience. As SCR pointed out, the one less than a mile away by Trader Joe's is perfectly acceptable.
Just to be clear SCR, I'm not saying you're "in the wrong" in any way by confronting people when you see rude behavior. It's just that in most cases, all confronting it verbally does is make the jerk angry, which in turn makes you even angrier. I don't think it's worth the stress, but we all have different personalities, and I tend to be a very easygoing person.
Edit: I do think race plays into the situation you described to a certain level. No one enjoys being scolded, but a white person scolding a black stranger brings up the specter of slavery and segregation, when it was essentially okay for a white person to correct a black person for any slight, no matter how ridiculous, and the black person was in turn supposed to just smile and move on with their day. Obviously we've moved past this, but some degree of defiance within American black culture today comes from wanting to buck the whole Uncle Remus "smiling negro" stereotype.
While I can't be sure obviously, if his posts are an indicator then he probably had more than a tinge of "holier than thou" when he confronted them. Whether or not the reaction was appropriate was of his own personal opinion, but he shouldn't be shocked when he was met opposition. But as I wrote previously, this has nothing to do with race.
I have a hard time believing that. And if it wasn't specifically "racial," it could have been "gacial," which is just as bad.
If you expect more than the lowest common denominator at McD's, then you are a bit short sighted.
I don't view McDonald's (or any fast-food place for that matter) to be that way. Although I type like I'm a powdered-wig-wearing dainty doily from the Gilded Age I can assure you I'm not an elitist in real life. I mean, I'm a glorified supervisor of a business that manages glorified delivery boys (and the occasional gal). I'm not exactly in any position to belittle anyone else. Most people working at McDonald's are trying to better their lives, and I give them much credit for actually WORKING at all instead of just whining for financial handouts the way many more of my 20-something peers have been doing as of late.
Why do we eat fast-food once per week on average?
1.) Our kitchen sucks. Our refrigerator is small. Our freezer is small. We have no dishwasher or garbage disposal. Our range is from the 1970s. Counterspace is mostly occupied by my panini press, my partner's Keurig machine, and various other small appliances such as the microwave, toaster oven, and toaster, leaving no prep area. Cooking is an unpleasant chore, so we only cook about once per week as a result.
2.) We both have crazy stressful and hectic schedules. Other than pizza, Primanti's (ew), Eat 'n Park (ew), Ritter's (ew), and very few other options that aren't expensive, fast-food is always a reliable bet to fill my stomach at 10 PM when I'm done working. I wish there was a non-fast-food-oriented place in the East End that sold nourishing healthy meals late-night that wasn't also expensive. Those options are very slim, as has been discussed ad nauseum on other threads.
^ This. I suppose this is where the mish-mash of cultures here comes into play. You're from NJ, Jay. I'm from the Poconos, which isn't far away. East Coast people would see someone cut them in line and cut right back in front OR politely (as we did) indicate to the offending party that we were in line and hope for a less abrasive encounter than what we experienced. I suppose those with the more Midwestern-ish influencing in Pittsburgh look at someone cutting them in line and just think "It's ok. They're probably just in more of a hurry than I am. I have all day to wait if need be."
Totally read that as "glacial". I'm sure there's a metaphor for a Honda Fit being the Titanic in there.
Eh. I don't think our sexual orientation had anything to do with it. We're not effeminate, and most of the general public would just view us as a couple of roommates or something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferraris
I don't understand this way of thinking. That doesn't make it acceptable. And that McDonald's is particularly bad. There's a broad spectrum of McDonald's quality; some actually offer a pleasant experience. As SCR pointed out, the one less than a mile away by Trader Joe's is perfetly acceptable.
It would have been nice if an employee had intervened to say "Actually, they WERE in line" or something, but I guess that was expecting too much. We just stick to the McDonald's near Trader Joe's now. We've actually been most impressed by the McDonald's at the Waterfront.
Even with the whole Bermuda Triangle of there not really being a "designated" line-up area at local McDonald's locations the general rule of thumb is that if you arrive after someone, then you let them order before you, is it not? We've never experienced line-cutting at fast-food places in any other area. I always wondered why fast-food restaurants don't have a velvet rope queing area, similar to movie theaters during the premiere of big movies, for crowd control purposes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton
Just to be clear SCR, I'm not saying you're "in the wrong" in any way by confronting people when you see rude behavior. It's just that in most cases, all confronting it verbally does is make the jerk angry, which in turn makes you even angrier. I don't think it's worth the stress, but we all have different personalities, and I tend to be a very easygoing person.
I just take rude behavior too personally I guess. Someone cutting me in line isn't actually coyly saying to me "I'm more important than you, so out of my way." It's overtly saying "I'm too stupid to have been taught what a line is, so please pity my blissful ignorance and carry on with your day." I'm going to have to adopt this mindset more in the future of feeling sorry for people who didn't have as strict of an upbringing as I did where we were beaten if we dared be inconsiderate to anyone in public.
For as much as I love the city I do have to admit it's immensely more stressful than living in a rural area. I encounter behavior like this DAILY here in the city whereas I'd probably encounter it much less frequently elsewhere. Life's too short I guess to endure chest pains wondering why evolution skipped some people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton
Edit: I do think race plays into the situation you described to a certain level. No one enjoys being scolded, but a white person scolding a black stranger brings up the specter of slavery and segregation, when it was essentially okay for a white person to correct a black person for any slight, no matter how ridiculous, and the black person was in turn supposed to just smile and move on with their day. Obviously we've moved past this, but some degree of defiance within American black culture today comes from wanting to buck the whole Uncle Remus "smiling negro" stereotype.
It also could have just been two dudes trying to act "tough" in front of two random chicks to score macho points with them. In any event I felt like any further escalation would have resulted in either my partner or I being shoved, followed by one of us retaliating and a likely race-related (according to the media) brawl ensuing. I can already picture Amy Marcinkiewicz racing to the scene!
Last edited by Yac; 08-20-2013 at 04:52 AM..
Reason: 3 posts in a row merged
I'm going to have to adopt this mindset more in the future of feeling sorry for people who didn't have as strict of an upbringing as I did where we were beaten if we dared be inconsiderate to anyone in public.
This, too me explains almost all of your reaction.
You still view it as a rules-based thing, where others should be punished if they don't obey. It's not so much about the reason for your (or their) behavior, rather it's about the rigid adherance to the established parameters in order to avoid negative consequenses. When the behavior of others doesn't fall within your framework, you've become conditioned to believe that they deserve to be punished. At it's root, it's fear based.
If you take a step back and think about why people form lines, waiting patiently, it has little to do with avoiding punishment. I would argue that it is out of a consideration, empathy, and a basic sense of commonality and lack of entitlement. In other words, "You are no better than everyone else so wait your turn." Under that midset, I find it pretty easy to dismiss those who seem to ignore this principle as worthy of pity, not necessarily anger.
This, too me explains almost all of your reaction.
You still view it as a rules-based thing, where others should be punished if they don't obey. It's not so much about the reason for your (or their) behavior, rather it's about the rigid adherance to the established parameters in order to avoid negative consequenses. When the behavior of others doesn't fall within your framework, you've become conditioned to believe that they deserve to be punished. At it's root, it's fear based.
If you take a step back and think about why people form lines, waiting patiently, it has little to do with avoiding punishment. I would argue that it is out of a consideration, empathy, and a basic sense of commonality and lack of entitlement. In other words, "You are no better than everyone else so wait your turn." Under that midset, I find it pretty easy to dismiss those who seem to ignore this principle as worthy of pity, not necessarily anger.
On that note let's veer back closer to the topic at-hand. Technically discussing an unpleasant experience at an East Liberty business isn't a bad derail from discussing whether East Liberty overall is poised for continued success or another eventual failure, but I'd rather us all get back on-track.
I'll reiterate that East Liberty overall has shown stronger signs of SUSTAINED momentum in terms of improvement than any other urban neighborhood I've lived near in just three years. I can't speak for the East Liberty of 2000 since I wasn't here then, but from what many have told me it was a "no man's land" for anyone BUT those from East Liberty. Now it's a great mixture of people from all races, socioeconomic backgrounds, and cultures. While there's occasionally some discourse, potentially related to race (such as my own vignette about the West Penn Circle McDonald's), overall East Liberty is integrating itself well.
We'd be remiss to discuss East Liberty's successful racially-integrated future without discussing its unfortunate racially-divided past where monied whites from Shadyside wouldn't spend a dime there out of fear, and where the blacks didn't really want white Shadysiders there anyways to begin with. Capri's Pizza, for example, is mostly staffed by whites and serves a largely black clientele. Our business contracts with them. I'm not crazy about their food, but whites and blacks patronizing there and working there all seem to have a good synergy and a good deal of respect for one another. Since moving here I've lamented the lack of upwardly-mobile urban neighborhoods that are truly racially-integrated. Now East Liberty can be added to the list along with Manchester, Highland Park, Stanton Heights, and a few others, and that's wonderful, in my eyes. This city isn't going to remain the "Most Livable" if we don't become more racially-integrated. Nobody wants to live in a city where all of the majority-black neighborhoods are horrible and sitting a stone's throw from very posh majority-white neighborhoods.
This is also more than just a white/black thing, too. Our Asian population is exploding now in the East End, yet Asians seem to be less willing to pioneer themselves into black-dominated neighborhoods than whites. Is there some sort of animus between blacks and Asians in general (not just in Pittsburgh) that I'm not aware of, since Asians seem to be perfectly happy living beside whites? I'm not at all trying to race-bait or anything. Bear in mind I've always been a suburban boy living in a 99% white community having wet dreams about diverse city living, so this is all still new to me. If East Liberty's future involves catering to monied whites at the expense of the blacks who helped forge the neighborhood, then I also think it will fail, just as it would fail if it continued to exclusively cater to blacks. The neighborhood truly has the potential to become the state's FOURTH-largest CBD behind Center City Philadelphia, Downtown Pittsburgh, and Oakland, but it will only do so if it can be more racially-harmonized. I know it's "taboo" to discuss race, but too bad. It needs to be discussed.
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