Can anything be done to save the "Mon Towns?" (Pittsburgh: for sale, crime)

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

The Pittsburgh MSA has been adding jobs like crazy recently:

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

Done right, sites like Carrie Furnace could get a piece of that action.

Edit: Just a visual reminder--the Carrie Furnace site is at the "E" and "N" in "ALLEGHENY":

Bing Maps - Driving Directions, Traffic and Road Conditions

If that's the case, why do we have so many depressed areas in Allegheny County that were once thriving communities?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Copanut

If that's the case, why do we have so many depressed areas in Allegheny County that were once thriving communities?

Because this trend of job growth really only started in 2006, then got set back by the recession, and meanwhile the reinvestment effects in the core area are starting from the established areas and moving outward.

Generally, you can't expect decades of economic distress and disinvestment to be entirely reversed in a couple years. But that doesn't mean it will never happen, and the Hazelwood LTV and Carrie Furnace sites are particularly well-positioned to be on the sooner rather than the later side.

[stburr91]

I think Braddock may benefit from the redevelopment of the Carrie Furnace site by seeing more industries moving in, but not much else. People just don't want to live in an industrial town.

With all the increased demand in Regent Square on one side of Swissvale, and the Carrie Furnace site other side, I think Swissvale could be the town to see the most positive change.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Because this trend of job growth really only started in 2006, then got set back by the recession, and meanwhile the reinvestment effects in the core area are starting from the established areas and moving outward.

Generally, you can't expect decades of economic distress and disinvestment to be entirely reversed in a couple years. But that doesn't mean it will never happen, and the Hazelwood LTV and Carrie Furnace sites are particularly well-positioned to be on the sooner rather than the later side.

2006?

I watched a lot my friends leave this area in the mid-70's when steel started to die. I worked at the US Steel research lab in Monroeville back then, it employed 2500 people with damn good paying jobs. It's gone. How do you replace that?

Small towns that did well, Turtle Creek, Pitcairn, Wall, Wilmerding, Swissvale, East Pittsburg, just to name a few, are, and have been in a decline. Do you think there are enough jobs coming down the pike to restore them to their old status?

[BrianTH]

Although I agree the steel mill may be an impediment, a large chunk of Braddock isn't particularly close to the mill.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Copanut

2006?

Yes. Again:

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

I worked at the US Steel research lab in Monroeville back then, it employed 2500 people with damn good paying jobs. It's gone. How do you replace that?

From March 2011 to March 2012, the Pittsburgh Metro added 2000 jobs in Professional and Technical Services (the industry category that includes engineering and scientific research).

Generally, most of our recent rapid job gains are occurring in higher-paying fields.

Edit: Here is Professional and Business Services, a broader sector that includes Professional and Technical Services. This sector actually started taking off more like 2004:

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/SMU42...a_tool=XGtable

Unedit.

Do you think there are enough jobs coming down the pike to restore them to their old status?

Eventually, yes, if we are smart about encouraging such redevelopment of existing communities (as opposed to greenfield development).

Again, though, the decline of those communities was decades in the making, so the reversal of that decline is not going to happen overnight.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

).

Again, though, the decline of those communities was decades in the making, so the reversal of that decline is not going to happen overnight.

So, like maybe 40-50 years?

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Generally, you can't expect decades of economic distress and disinvestment to be entirely reversed in a couple years. But that doesn't mean it will never happen, and the Hazelwood LTV and Carrie Furnace sites are particularly well-positioned to be on the sooner rather than the later side.

The decline of these communities started in the post WWII decade, and has definitely continued since then.

But when the areas were built up, in the Gilded Age, it all happened pretty quickly, with places like Braddock more than doubling their population in the 1870's, 80's and 90's.

Yes, places like Braddock can recover very quickly depending on what kind of aggressive development takes place.

Look out at North Dakota that was in pretty deep decline has suddenly bounced back because of the Bakken. That kind of thing can certainly happen hear, this region still has a lot of natural resources and advantages, and perhaps even resources that haven't been discovered yet.

[Clint.]

Rather than just say something like, barring a radical and unprecedented advancement in human society there will always be severely depressed communities, and that if it's not Rankin, Braddock, Duquesne et. al., then it will be others, and that if major development funds are at stake they'd be better spent supplementing an at-risk but less depressed area to prevent said at-risk area from slipping into the abyss, I'll try to be creative.

And this isn't terribly creative, because I think John Fetterman is already experimenting with something similar (and if he isn't, then I'm having dreams about him). Have the municipalities reclaim vacant houses that are abandoned or otherwise essentially so (perhaps, absentee owner who hasn't paid his tax bills for awhile...however the municipality can claim ownership of a basically abandoned property), and then sell for an extremely low price or give it away to an owner-occupant willing and able to agree to a certain list of conditions, 1. Do x within 8 months, 2. perform y within 16 months, 3., z in 24 months, etc. After a while there will be a critical mass of decent people living in the community fixing it up that maybe others will want to join them but at something closer to a market rate.

It would be slow and tedious, but it would also be a somewhat natural way to transform the nature of the community without diverting major funds from other targeted areas that haven't fallen so far, because, as I pointed out earlier, a development like The Waterfront, despite it's very large scale, has had minimal impact on the residential nature of the surrounding community (and, given the distressed status of the surrounding communities, another large retailing development probably isn't even feasible along the Mon without draining customers from The Waterfront).

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Copanut

So, like maybe 40-50 years?

With the right policies, it should take less time for many of these communities to recover than it took for them to decline. In fact it has already started--the Mon Valley, after all, starts with the South Side and PTC, and includes Summerset at Frick Park and The Waterfront (although that last was poorly done).