why does the downtown close so early? (Pittsburgh, St. Clair: income, shops)

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

I just feel saddened that chain restaurants around here never go out of business, yet many local mom-and-pop joints DO.

Actually, we've had many chain restaurants close down.

Pappans used to have quite a few locations around town, and Eat n Park has closed individual locations including L'ville, Washington Blvd and Penn Ave in Garfield

[greg42]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

We don't utilize the Strip District very much at all due to the inconvenient hours, despite living within walking distance. I usually work most Saturday and Sunday mornings. By the time my partner leaves work after 4 most businesses are already getting prepared to close up shop. On the rare coinciding weeknight we're off we'd love to "hit the Strip" at 5 PM or 6 PM, but for what purpose? We could grab dinner at Reyna's, Chicken Latino, or maybe even Roland's, Kaya, Eleven, or Lidia's, but there's nowhere to shop, really, at that time. When we "do the Strip" we turn it into an all-out affair with stops at Penn Mac, Pittsburgh Popcorn Company, Mon Aime Chocolatiers, Wholey's, Strip District Meats, Marty's Market, specialty retailers, etc., etc., in addition to grabbing food and/or a drink or two. We won't "do the Strip" if there's nothing open.

Be fair though, Marty's Market is in fact open the hours that I am thinking of, 10-8 every weekday. But yeah it's not a big draw on its own unless you live in the immediate vicinity. Not sure if you count yourself that way or not. And the way the shops on Penn all close up, it's always been odd to me.

BTW, not Rolands. That place is useless.

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

One of my biggest complaints since moving here in 2010 has always been how quickly this city "closes up shop" Downtown and in the Strip. Market Square and the Cultural District are finally pumping some nightlife into Downtown, but the rest of the city's urban core is comparatively dead. What makes this city so unattractive from a livability standpoint that everyone in their mother-in-law who works Downtown (over 100,000 people) would prefer to live in Cranberry, Peters, or Robinson over the city?

Not everyone. A few of us made choices 10 years ago we'd rather revoke today but are difficult to untangle quickly.

[greg42]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

I only like fast-food because it's quick---and I'm busy. When I'm working a nearly 12-hour shift I don't want to "go out" afterwards at 9 PM to eat at a restaurant, nor do I want to cook. At that hour generally the only delivery option even I can get is pizza. Any "quick" sit-down restaurants that are open late (i.e. Ritter's, Eat 'n Park, King's) suck, which leaves me patronizing Wendy's a LOT.

I hear that. Although I guess I'd sooner heat up something quick at home, at least now I would. Rewind some years and I ate a lot of Wendys myself.

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

I just feel saddened that chain restaurants around here never go out of business, yet many local mom-and-pop joints DO.

A lot of Burger Kings closed around here, never to be replaced. It's a little strange, that one. Also, while I think it's great to elevate local joints and wholeheartedly agree with that, not every one is worthy either. Some that close we are sad to see go. Others you are not missing much. And yeah, some things that stay open are bad. Can't win 'em all, plus, there's no accounting for taste.

[alastad]

[quote=Gee Whiz;33077205]

Originally Posted by alastad

My bf is originally from the Steubenville, OH area, which is, of course, smaller than PGH, and he complains about places here in the burgh closing so early, because most places in the Steubenville area stay open untill 10 or 11 at night, if not 24/7, where as here in the burgh, most places close at 9. Also, his sister in-law used to live in L.A. for a while, which is of course, bigger than PGH, and she said most places in L.A. close at 11. I read on Wikipedia that in Las Vegas most places stay open 24/7. Also, there's a woman on my FB who currently lives in Steubenville, who is originally from Louisville, KY, and she posted a status update the one time asking why places in Steubenville close so early, so I assume that in Louisville places stay open late too. I also know that across the bridge from Steubenville in Weirton, WV that most places stay open untill about 10 or 11 if not 24/7 there as well. This got me wondering if these other cities are the exception, or does PGH have strange hours.

What kind of "places" are we talking about? The statement/question is a bit vague. Different neighborhoods go later than others. There are too many generalities in your post and your boyfriend's statement to really give a good answer. As for Las Vegas, their # 1 industry is tourism, so it is no surprise that it stays open later than most cities.

By places I mean businesses which serve the public: places to get a bite from, Walmart, convenience stores etch.

[alastad]

Originally Posted by zman63

Pittsburgh businesses do not stay open late. There isnt a demand in downtown for saturday hours. Unless it is a bar everything seems to close early. When we went to downtown cleveland there was more to do and businesses seemed to stay open a little later than the burgh.

You made the same observation as I about weirton. It seems to be the only town where places stay open late. I think a lot of it has to do with gambling cafes that are open. Some of these cafes are stand alone and others are attached to sit down restaurants. All of these cafes have 5 to 7 slot machines that are regulated by the state. People sit at these places drink dollar beers and 2 buck mixed drinks. Some of them give free food as well. The state of wv turns off the machines in these cafes at 3 am and turns them on again at 7 am. There are about 200 of these cafes in the northern panhandle aside from wheeling and mountaineer casinos.

That is prolly a reason why stuff stays open. I played at a cafe till 2 am and went down the street to a pizza parlor. These cafes are crowded late at night. Btw they are found in throughout the state not just the panhandle.

I'm not talking about downtown specifically, I'm talking about PGH in general. I'm not talking about saturday hours either, I'm talking about hours of every day. Were you in the suburbs of Cleveland at all? If so, did places in the suburbs of Cleveland stay open later than in the burgh too?

[doo dah]

Originally Posted by steindle

The whole point of Downtown is that you don't need to drive there.

Steindle OTM! Back when Downtown *was* open late, people rode the bus or trolley into town (or stayed after work). Mondays and Thursdays, Kaufmanns, Hornes and Gimbels were open until 9:00 PM. There were restaurants and bars that stayed open to serve the shoppers.

[Goinback2011]

Originally Posted by doo dah

Steindle OTM! Back when Downtown *was* open late, people rode the bus or trolley into town (or stayed after work). Mondays and Thursdays, Kaufmanns, Hornes and Gimbels were open until 9:00 PM. There were restaurants and bars that stayed open to serve the shoppers.

It was a different world. All the new release movies went to theaters downtown. Some played there exclusively for months on end.

Technology killed downtown and there is, as yet, no reason for the masses to go there again after working hours.

[szug-bot]

^^^^ true. even the cultural district is dead when there is not an event at either the heinz or the benedum.

one reason might be how scattered things are. the consol energy center is blocks from the cultural district, and market square/PPG rink isnt adjacent to either. so there might be 'life' downtown on a certain weekday evening, but its not obvious.

before, during, and after a penguins game, the consol sees a sea of people and vehicles. after the game, they have nowhere to go but to the T, and their distant post-game destinations. this i will never understand, but it could take years for the immediate area to 'catch up' and take advantage of that windfall. there are a few places along Fifth that are open late, but the area in general is dumpy and not attractive.

the verizon centre in DC, in contrast, is incredible. i think some people go to a game there just to enjoy the after-game culture. the eating/drinking options within a short walk are boundless, and its a clean, attractive place.

[_Buster]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

^^^^ true. even the cultural district is dead when there is not an event at either the heinz or the benedum.

one reason might be how scattered things are. the consol energy center is blocks from the cultural district, and market square/PPG rink isnt adjacent to either. so there might be 'life' downtown on a certain weekday evening, but its not obvious.

before, during, and after a penguins game, the consol sees a sea of people and vehicles. after the game, they have nowhere to go but to the T, and their distant post-game destinations. this i will never understand, but it could take years for the immediate area to 'catch up' and take advantage of that windfall. there are a few places along Fifth that are open late, but the area in general is dumpy and not attractive.

the verizon centre in DC, in contrast, is incredible. i think some people go to a game there just to enjoy the after-game culture. the eating/drinking options within a short walk are boundless, and its a clean, attractive place.

I think the success of 7th st on both sides of the Verizon center has to do with the fact that most of the businesses are close together and on the same few blocks of the same street, within clear sight lines of each other. That creates a critical mass of walk-in traffic because it is obvious from the lighted signs and storefronts that the business are almost all open at night. It also doesn't hurt that it is practically the only such area near downtown DC, so it doesn't have much competition from other neighborhoods after events.

I don't know if a similar thing is possible around the Consol center - I guess it depends on the plans for the old civic arena site. But I think that type of atmosphere is definitely possible on Penn Ave.

[greg42]

Originally Posted by alastad

By places I mean businesses which serve the public: places to get a bite from, Walmart, convenience stores etch.

Originally Posted by alastad

I'm not talking about downtown specifically, I'm talking about PGH in general. I'm not talking about saturday hours either, I'm talking about hours of every day.

This doesn't make any sense. You're talking about generic convenience stores and Walmart all over the Pittsburgh area? Sure there might be an odd place here and there that closes early, but it's not the norm for such things. It's no different here than anywhere else. The Walmart Supercenters are open 24/7. Sheetz is open forever, they close for nothing.