The School Pension Problems Cometh! (Pittsburgh, Penn: neighborhood, schools, universities)

[gg]

Originally Posted by Hopes

If your children are young, move them sooner than later. It's more difficult to move them when they are in middle school or high school.

We're leaving next year. This latest assessment motivated us. Children raised. No reason to stay and waste money a moment longer.

We will hang on for a little while longer. I think in my district the pain will come slower than in the city. City residents will feel this pretty hard. Wonder if CAPA will go bye, bye? Not sure? Seems Corbett is on track.

Another fact many spending advocates conveniently ignore is that student enrollment since 2000 has dramatically decreased by 35,510, but the number of staff employed by public schools increased by 35,821. This begs an important question: Would anyone invest in an endeavor that doubles its spending and significantly increases its staff to serve a shrinking customer base, all while making a product that isn't improving?

This is most disturbing!!!

But they are not alone as total taxpayer contributions for school and state worker pensions will increase from $1.7 billion in 2011-12 to more than $6.1 billion in 2016-17—a 257 percent increase. Next school year, the average homeowner will pay an additional $370 just for increases in required pension contributions.

Interesting we agree Hopes. Both fleeing. I don't want to go down with the ship. Hope there is some value in my home by the time I flee. I think right now is the best time to sell. The interest rates are insanely low to entice people to buy a home. If they creep up and taxes keep climbing, my home will have little value. You are in a good situation Hopes.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Another fact many spending advocates conveniently ignore is that student enrollment since 2000 has dramatically decreased by 35,510, but the number of staff employed by public schools increased by 35,821. This begs an important question: Would anyone invest in an endeavor that doubles its spending and significantly increases its staff to serve a shrinking customer base, all while making a product that isn't improving?

Parents seem to think student-teacher ratios say a lot about how good a school is, which probably plays a big role in how the teaching workforce could expand while the student body contracts. Parents look at education as a service being provided, and quality servicing.

FWIW, I've seen numerous studies which show student-teacher ratios play no role whatsoever in student performance. But it's one of those fallacies which has become commonly accepted - even when i show data to parents they still say "well, maybe it doesn't improve test scores, but it's important for discipline" or something similar.

[gg]

Just check out this article and in the summary the charts. I can't seem to post the charts, but they are early in that article. WOW! All this extra money we are spending did NOTHING! What a shame and look at the mess it is going to create!

http://21pstem.org/EducationalExpendituresPA.pdf

[gg]

Originally Posted by eschaton

FWIW, I've seen numerous studies which show student-teacher ratios play no role whatsoever in student performance.

That is encouraging. It could help a lot in saving school districts if they use those studies. I will take any good news I can find. Thanks. Now I need to find a link for that study if I can find it.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

That is encouraging. It could help a lot in saving school districts if they use those studies. I will take any good news I can find. Thanks. Now I need to find a link for that study if I can find it.

I can see this being true to a point--I doubt a 15-child classroom offers much marginal benefit over a 25-child classroom. But there is definitely such a thing as overcrowding.

[ML North]

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

But there is definitely such a thing as overcrowding.

Perfect example -- Chevron Auditorium. Ever have a class in there?

[gg]

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

I can see this being true to a point--I doubt a 15-child classroom offers much marginal benefit over a 25-child classroom. But there is definitely such a thing as overcrowding.

Hmm, I am not finding encouraging information regarding class size. This might not be an easy fix. Seems many states have greatly loosened their class size restrictions due to massive budget cuts. Ohio and NJ both changed their restriction number due to massive budget deficits. We sure were living in a bubble.

[squarian]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Keep in mind, MOST of the time a merger happens the district suffers. That has been the case in our region. Don't think for a minute parents want mergers. More bussing, watered down schools and usually lowering test scores. Look at some of those disastrous mergers in our region and how devastating it was to those living in places like Churchill and Edgewood.

Ah, the old canard - knew that one was going to turn up here.

[WhoIsStanwix?]

I think we would do well, as a state if not as a nation, to limit the number of folks who graduate with degrees in education each year too, sort of similar to the AMA limiting spots in medical schools. Having an oversupply of qualified (on paper) applicants for the number of teaching jobs out there doesn't help anything, though it may drive salaries down. It seems like the more paper (degrees, certificates, etc.) one has these days, the more likely they are to get a job. Sadly, this doesn't necessarily equate to selecting for the best candidates, but rather it gives greater opportunity to those willing to go further in debt or to those who have wealthy patrons.

All of that being said, the glut of young teaching candidates should bode well for future salary and benefit costs, as these younger teachers may be willing to concede salary and benefits. A sad but true legacy of the baby boomers is all of their kids (myself included) will be operating in a world where relative compensation levels fall, while our tax burden as a percent of that smaller income increases to pay legacy costs of those who no longer contribute as much to tax revenues.

[gg]

Originally Posted by squarian

Ah, the old canard - knew that one was going to turn up here.

You must not know anyone that was effected by those horrible mergers. I don't think they would all it a canard. If anything, that would be the opposite description. Lets just agree to disagree, because really, I knew too many people that were effected by those big messes.

Anyway, if misery loves company, PA isn't alone with the hope to straighten out their budget before it is too late. We can't keep going like nothing is wrong and we can make it up later. These cuts need to happen and budgets need to be fixed. Paying debt service and increasing debt is bad business.