Let's go Bucs!!! (Erie, Oakland: sales, ratings, distance)

[JimboPGH]

Originally Posted by sskink

FWIW, DK says he knows for a fact Neal could go to $90 mill, or about $12 mill more than current payroll. Personally I think that should've been this year's starting point, but it's progress.

It's funny how much the goalposts keep getting moved on the desired payroll. I hope that it continues to go up over the next few years (hopefully with a big deal for Russell Martin and a long-term deal for Polanco), but it cracks me up how some folks (not you) think we should just spend wildly for the sake of it. Charlie Wilmouth over at BucsDugout really got on my nerves this offseason by getting hung up on payroll, while not properly analyzing the quality of moves. He was starting to come to his senses a bit by mid-season, but then went off his rocker again at the trade deadline.

Folks keeping wanting the Bucs to do something flashy. Personally, after 20 years of misery, I want success that is sustainable.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by JimboPGH

It's funny how much the goalposts keep getting moved on the desired payroll. I hope that it continues to go up over the next few years (hopefully with a big deal for Russell Martin and a long-term deal for Polanco), but it cracks me up how some folks (not you) think we should just spend wildly for the sake of it. Charlie Wilmouth over at BucsDugout really got on my nerves this offseason by getting hung up on payroll, while not properly analyzing the quality of moves. He was starting to come to his senses a bit by mid-season, but then went off his rocker again at the trade deadline.

Folks keeping wanting the Bucs to do something flashy. Personally, after 20 years of misery, I want success that is sustainable.

Bob will thank you for worrying about his money.

When is Martin gonna be signed?

Sustainability comes with good, smart moves. If one has confidence in their ability to make those moves they can make big moves without repercussions. The point of a REAL sports team is to win championships, not tread water.

[SlurmsMcKenzie]

Not surprising that they didn't do anything. They really have too many holes to fill just one or two and expect to have a reasonable chance to win a championship. The Pirates are getting lucky with Locke, Worley, and Volquez. I'm not saying the three are bad pitchers, but all three are due for a regression (Locke's may have already started). Morton is struggling and who knows what level Cole is at when he comes back. Liriano has looked better.

On the offensive end, there are holes at 3B, 1B, and RF. Harrison can fill one and we hope Polanco can improve quickly. Marte is also coming back from multiple concussions.

I still would have hoped they would have made a few medium moves geared towards next year, yet still improving the team this year. Ian Kennedy would have been a nice addition in the rotation, as would have Tommy Millone (who could have been had for cheap). I also would have made a move for a versatile middle infielder (like Ben Zobrist) who would have allowed them to trade Pedro in the offseason (provided someone actually wants him.).

I have concerns over next years rotation as is, given our only returning starters are Cole, Locke, Morton,and Worley, with the likely addition of Kingham. That's a weak rotation, especially with the likely departure of Martin. We know the Pirates are notoriously cheap in free agency, and they need to try and allocate more dollars towards Martin, Walker, and maybe Polanco. So adding a starter under control through 2015 via trade should be a priority.

[erieguy]

Very true.

If they don't sign those guys and throw some real money in the offseason this teams window of opportunity is closing fast.

They gotta keep beating up on the bad teams.

[JimboPGH]

Originally Posted by SlurmsMcKenzie

On the offensive end, there are holes at 3B, 1B, and RF. Harrison can fill one and we hope Polanco can improve quickly. Marte is also coming back from multiple concussions.

If Pedro can quit throwing the ball away on every other routine grounder, he and J-Hay should make for strong 3rd Base platoon the rest of the way. The 1st Base platoon isn't nearly as bad as folks make it out to be: both need to hit for more power down the stretch but Ike still has a .353 OBP with a 109 wRC+. Gaby has had a down year so far, but he's still dangerous against southpaws (.779 OPS, 121 wRC+). 1st base has been mediocre and has the potential to be above average. It certainly hasn't been a "hole." And I wouldn't worry much about Polanco, pretty much all rookies have stretches like he's had the last four weeks. The kid has a great approach and a world of talent. He'll be fine.

Really, our offense hasn't been a problem at all. What's held us back was a lousy first month from the rotation and a whole lot of bad luck that we somehow completely avoided last year coming back to bite the bullpen in the ass. I'll be surprised if Neal doesn't manage a waiver deal for an extra bullpen arm at some point in August. Legit #2 starters will be hard to find (forget about aces), so we'll just have to hope for the best from Cole, Liriano, Morton, and Worley/Locke/Volquez.

I agree that we'll definitely need to add a strong starter next year, but I think a rotation of Cole, (insert mystery #2 starter here), Morton, Worley, and Kingham, with Locke and Cumpton as depth (with Tailon a possibility down the stretch, depending on how fast he recovers) should at least be above average.

[SlurmsMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by JimboPGH

I agree that we'll definitely need to add a strong starter next year, but I think a rotation of Cole, (insert mystery #2 starter here), Morton, Worley, and Kingham, with Locke and Cumpton as depth (with Tailon a possibility down the stretch, depending on how fast he recovers) should at least be above average.

Mystery starter 2 may end up being Liriano again, who knows. Unlikely, but stranger things have happened. They probably won't be able to afford the other top starters who will be free agents this offseason.

Also, I don't why they didn't make an attempt at landing Bonifacio and Russell. They could have easily matched what the Cubs received. Russell would have been a bullpen upgrade and Bonifacio would have functioned as JHay-lite, a definite upgrade to the bench. I know the Cubs are division rivals but these guys are free agents after this year anyways so it shouldn't have mattered.

[sskink]

Originally Posted by SlurmsMcKenzie

Mystery starter 2 may end up being Liriano again, who knows. Unlikely, but stranger things have happened. They probably won't be able to afford the other top starters who will be free agents this offseason.

Also, I don't why they didn't make an attempt at landing Bonifacio and Russell. They could have easily matched what the Cubs received. Russell would have been a bullpen upgrade and Bonifacio would have functioned as JHay-lite, a definite upgrade to the bench. I know the Cubs are division rivals but these guys are free agents after this year anyways so it shouldn't have mattered.

Yeah. Braves didn't pay much. Bucs need another LH bullpen option (Neal has finally come around on that point). And Bonifacio would've solved multiple problems, basically giving Bucs two Josh Harrisons to fill OF/3B vs. LHP. Plus he could spell Mercer occasionally.

Missed opportunity there. I imagine we'll get another Kyle Farnsworth type guy in late August.

[erieguy]

Gotta love it. 1 winning season in 21 years and Bob Nutting says upgrade your 20 game plan to 1/2 or full season next year, or no guaranteed 2014 postseason tickets. No upgrade in the team but he/they want people to upgrade their plan. One of the worst owners in sports yet one of the best businessmen/salesmen one will ever believe/meet.

[Gee Whiz]

Originally Posted by erieguy

Gotta love it. 1 winning season in 21 years and Bob Nutting says upgrade your 20 game plan to 1/2 or full season next year, or no guaranteed 2014 postseason tickets. No upgrade in the team but he/they want people to upgrade their plan. One of the worst owners in sports yet one of the best businessmen/salesmen one will ever believe/meet.

If the Pirates don't continue their free fall and somehow get back into the playoff hunt, they have a chance to finish in the Top 15 or better in attendance. That is pretty impressive considering that they are 27 out of 30 teams in payroll. The Pirates attendance figures are head and shoulders above pretty much every team in the bottom ten in payroll. Nutting is making a killing.http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...73231344,d.cWc
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...1ej8AyD60LX_OA

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by Gee Whiz

If the Pirates don't continue their free fall and somehow get back into the playoff hunt, they have a chance to finish in the Top 15 or better in attendance. That is pretty impressive considering that they are 27 out of 30 teams in payroll. The Pirates attendance figures are head and shoulders above pretty much every team in the bottom ten in payroll. Nutting is making a killing.

Yep, no better marketing genius you'll find. Even when they don't sign Martin and Walker, reduce payroll even more and continue to regress, he will still find a way to make and keep even more money without improving the team.