Let's go Bucs!!! (Espy: career, substitute, agents)

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by Copanut

I was all for keeping Justin, no way his stay here last season should have been looked on as negative. He didn't hit the long ball but he played well. For 6M/year he would have helped here a bit. But by sitting out the last two games to preserve his BA is bush, IMHO.

Couldn't agree more...and his $6m is the same as Ishikawa, Davis, and Sanchez combined.

Rolling the dice "on the cheap" certainly didn't look good then or now.

Rockies have nothing to gain. If they did, he'd play. Since they don't, take the title and run. Same as there's no reason for the Cards or anybody else thats clinched to go all out. Jhay had a shot but he choked. If the Bucs were in the same position and Jhay was in the lead, he'd be sitting same as Morneau.

[Pghuser]

he should've been brought back

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by Pghuser

he should've been brought back

Yep, but Bob is way to cheap to have made that happen even though they and everybody else knew 1b and RF was a problem. It's always prospects, prospects, prospects, and the future. It's never about now...but 2015 season tickets are available.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by erieguy

Couldn't agree more...and his $6m is the same as Ishikawa, Davis, and Sanchez combined.

Rolling the dice "on the cheap" certainly didn't look good then or now.

Rockies have nothing to gain. If they did, he'd play. Since they don't, take the title and run. Same as there's no reason for the Cards or anybody else thats clinched to go all out. Jhay had a shot but he choked. If the Bucs were in the same position and Jhay was in the lead, he'd be sitting same as Morneau.

Freddie Sanchez could have, but he didn't.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by Copanut

Freddie Sanchez could have, but he didn't.

That's Sanchez. Jhay may have done the same as Morneau or the same as Sanchez. We'll never know.

There's no reason to risk a possible once in a lifetime accomplishment to give it up if you don't have to. Morneau did his work. Jhay didn't. Unfortunately, Morneau isn't still a Buc.

[SlurmsMcKenzie]

I don't know if I fully agree with pitching Cole yesterday. I understand all that was on the line, but they've now shorted themselves a little bit for the WC and start of the NLDS (if they make it that far). Besides, what would they have done if they had made a play-in game with St. Louis and lost, followed by the WC game, and then the NLDS? That scenario probably would have involved Jeff Locke at some point which could have been disastrous. They were facing one of the best pitchers in the NL in Cueto to boot. It just feels to me like they wasted another stellar effort by Cole.

In our current scenario, Volquez will pitch the WC game. I like Volquez but I think I would prefer our ace (which Cole has become) in a one game elimination.

I'm also glad that we have the chance to make the NLDS to face the Nats as opposed to the Dodgers.

[SammyKhalifa]

Originally Posted by erieguy

Yep, but Bob is way to cheap to have made that happen even though they and everybody else knew 1b and RF was a problem. It's always prospects, prospects, prospects, and the future. It's never about now...but 2015 season tickets are available.

Every player was at one time a prospect. Anyone that doesn't see that or know that the Pirates need them is just looking for something to complain about. McCutchen was a prospect. Your sudden hero Justin Morneau (I guess it's no longer AJ Burnett for some odd reason) was a prospect.

Two or three years ago the trade-idea-du-jour was Upton for "just a prospect" Starling Marte. I'm sure if that had happened everyone would be on here right now congratulating them for trading that prospect.

I hear that the Braves firing their General Manager didn't have anything to do with trading for guys like the Uptons and spending all their money on expensive has-been free agents.

[sskink]

Originally Posted by SlurmsMcKenzie

I don't know if I fully agree with pitching Cole yesterday. I understand all that was on the line, but they've now shorted themselves a little bit for the WC and start of the NLDS (if they make it that far). Besides, what would they have done if they had made a play-in game with St. Louis and lost, followed by the WC game, and then the NLDS? That scenario probably would have involved Jeff Locke at some point which could have been disastrous. They were facing one of the best pitchers in the NL in Cueto to boot. It just feels to me like they wasted another stellar effort by Cole.

In our current scenario, Volquez will pitch the WC game. I like Volquez but I think I would prefer our ace (which Cole has become) in a one game elimination.

I'm also glad that we have the chance to make the NLDS to face the Nats as opposed to the Dodgers.

If the Bucs aren't going to score more than one run, it doesn't matter a whole lot who's pitching. But, you can point to fact that Cole hasn't thrown any shutouts while Volquez has, so 1-0 is at least possible. If he throws a CG or at least gets the ball to Melancon as the pen failed in two straight "must wins".

Nats' entire starting staff is pitching better than Kershaw last three times through the rotation and you're excited about that? OK. There aren't going to be any easy outs at this point. Both Nats and LAD are playing very well.

As far as Cole going, Hurdle had the enthusiastic backing of the team. No point playing 161 games chasing a division title only to say in Game 162 that it doesn't matter so let's not try. Collmenter did his job for AZ, holding Cards to one run. IMO, DBags might've had more success vs Wainwright than the series of relievers Cards used in that game.

I have no issues with how Hurdle set this up, especially as Liriano has had his own control problems. Volquez is the 2nd best starting pitcher in NL in September. Bumgarner can be had - he's made his living high in the strike zone, doesn't pitch inside a whole lot. The guys you'd expect to hit him well have done so (Martin, Gaby, Harrison, Marte, Mercer). Happy to take my chances with Eddie. If Bucs lose, they'll have a lot of internal discussions on what went wrong and where they could've picked up 3 more wins - and there are probably 20-25 games they can look at where Bucs shot themselves in the foot.

Regardless of opinions that Bucs needed more talent, IMO they were a more talented team than Cards this year, but failed to execute enough times for it to matter in the standings, whether that's throwing meatballs at inopportune times, missing sacrifice bunts, running into outs, Pedro throwing balls into the stands, etc. etc.

Btw, Watson has a 10-2 record (including yesterday's loss) and everyone likes to talk about his ASG appearance, but not too many people talk about the seven blown saves.

All that aside, I'm looking forward to jumping on Bumgarner early again. I hope three days rest is enough for Martin's hammy. And that Eddie starts fast w/o control issues in 1st inning. Should be a good game.

[SammyKhalifa]

Originally Posted by sskink

If the Bucs aren't going to score more than one run, it doesn't matter a whole lot who's pitching. But, you can point to fact that Cole hasn't thrown any shutouts while Volquez has, so 1-0 is at least possible. If he throws a CG or at least gets the ball to Melancon as the pen failed in two straight "must wins".

Nats' entire starting staff is pitching better than Kershaw last three times through the rotation and you're excited about that? OK. There aren't going to be any easy outs at this point. Both Nats and LAD are playing very well.

As far as Cole going, Hurdle had the enthusiastic backing of the team. No point playing 161 games chasing a division title only to say in Game 162 that it doesn't matter so let's not try. Collmenter did his job for AZ, holding Cards to one run. IMO, DBags might've had more success vs Wainwright than the series of relievers Cards used in that game.

I have no issues with how Hurdle set this up, especially as Liriano has had his own control problems. Volquez is the 2nd best starting pitcher in NL in September. Bumgarner can be had - he's made his living high in the strike zone, doesn't pitch inside a whole lot. The guys you'd expect to hit him well have done so (Martin, Gaby, Harrison, Marte, Mercer). Happy to take my chances with Eddie. If Bucs lose, they'll have a lot of internal discussions on what went wrong and where they could've picked up 3 more wins.

Btw, Watson has a 10-2 record (including yesterday's loss) and everyone likes to talk about his ASG appearance, but not too many people talk about the seven blown saves.

I'd rather see Cole in a one game situation, but I'm ok with Volquez. Liriano is great, but also concerns me almost every time he goes in. It seems like he's constantly on the verge of walking that one guy too many and getting into trouble to me.

[SlurmsMcKenzie]

My bad, you are correct about the Dodgers, they are the team I'd prefer to play. For whatever reason I was thinking we'd had more success against the Nats when in fact we were 5-2 this year against the Dodgers. I think both are beatable, provided our bats can come to life and Martin is healthy.