Let's go Bucs!!! (Pittsburgh: zip code, stations, small business)

[sskink]

Originally Posted by SammyKhalifa

No, I'm not a fan of picking up an "enhancer."

But now let's hear all about how we're so cheap for not giving Martin 82 million dollars.

Kinda how I figured this was going to go down, just not to Toronto. Bucs apparently offered 5/$62.5, Cubs responded with 4/$64 and the the Blue Jays just blew everyone else off the map with that insane number. Not to worry about the Cubs though, they'll get some pitching this year and then give Matt Weiters an even bigger check next year.

If Cervelli can avoid concussions and play mostly full time, he should get back about half the WAR of the 5+ WAR lost with Martin. The rest of it will have to be made up at 1b and pitching and with Polanco realizing his potential. Get on the phone Neal.

Anyway, the deal the Cards just pulled off is more worrisome - they just got awesome again picking up Heyward and Walden while Bucs won't get to beat up Shelby Miller 6x/year going forward. Didn't see that coming. At least the Braves will be mailing it in for 2015, so probably don't have to worry about them competing for a WC.

[erieguy]

Certainly not the way you had it going. Bucs were never a contender for Martin...but a supposed 5/62 offer is a perfect offer for fans to say, "at least we tried to sign him".

[sskink]

Originally Posted by erieguy

Certainly not the way you had it going. Bucs were never a contender for Martin...but a supposed 5/62 offer is a perfect offer for fans to say, "at least we tried to sign him".

If you were really OK with giving Martin $82 mill for 5 years, I've given you far too much credit for knowing anything about baseball.

[SammyKhalifa]

Originally Posted by sskink

Kinda how I figured this was going to go down, just not to Toronto. Bucs apparently offered 5/$62.5, Cubs responded with 4/$64 and the the Blue Jays just blew everyone else off the map with that insane number. Not to worry about the Cubs though, they'll get some pitching this year and then give Matt Weiters an even bigger check next year.

If Cervelli can avoid concussions and play mostly full time, he should get back about half the WAR of the 5+ WAR lost with Martin. The rest of it will have to be made up at 1b and pitching and with Polanco realizing his potential. Get on the phone Neal.

Anyway, the deal the Cards just pulled off is more worrisome - they just got awesome again picking up Heyward and Walden while Bucs won't get to beat up Shelby Miller 6x/year going forward. Didn't see that coming. At least the Braves will be mailing it in for 2015, so probably don't have to worry about them competing for a WC.

Yep, the Cards are the Cards and the Cubs still looming on the horizon . . .

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by sskink

If you were really OK with giving Martin $82 mill for 5 years, I've given you far too much credit for knowing anything about baseball.

Where did I say it was "OK"?

And if you think the Bucs were really planning on giving Martin 5/62.5, it only confirms that your Bob Nutting yinzer glasses are still on and you need to get some sports knowledge instead of believing everything you hear or read.

[SammyKhalifa]

Originally Posted by erieguy

And if you think the Bucs were really planning on giving Martin 5/62.5, it only confirms that your Bob Nutting yinzer glasses are still on.

What possible difference could it make if everyone agrees that 82 is way too much and he wasn't going to stay. I'm pretty sure most people don't think that he was staying.

Unless you really think we should have given him as much as he got, in which case either you're totally off the reservation or are arguing just to argue.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by SammyKhalifa

What possible difference could it make if everyone agrees that 82 is way too much and he wasn't going to stay. I'm pretty sure most people don't think that he was staying.

Unless you really think we should have given him as much as he got, in which case either you're totally off the reservation or are arguing just to argue.

If you read earlier posts, there were those beieving he was going to stay(false hope). Now had they made a legit offer before the season, things may have been different. You asked for me to say how the Bucs were cheap in regard to Martin so I gave you examples.

Never said we should have given him that. I said all along that the Bucs would give a perfect number that would be rejected and fans would be good with.

[sskink]

Originally Posted by erieguy

Where did I say it was "OK"?

And if you think the Bucs were really planning on giving Martin 5/62.5, it only confirms that your Bob Nutting yinzer glasses are still on and you need to get some sports knowledge instead of believing everything you hear or read.

The standard, "At least the Pirates can say they tried" stuff... which infers that even if the Bucs offered 5/$81 and lost to Toronto's extra million, Nutting/Bucs would still be "cheap".

You like to say "just the facts" a lot. The fact here is that Nutting is the owner. If Nutting eats properly, stays in good health and avoids dangerous situations, he probably will be the owner until I'm dead. Not a damned thing I can do about that. So I deal with that reality and try to second-guess what Neal does with the money he is allowed to spend (and in the case of 2014, what he didn't choose to spend).

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by sskink

The standard, "At least the Pirates can say they tried" stuff... which infers that even if the Bucs offered 5/$81 and lost to Toronto's extra million, Nutting/Bucs would still be "cheap".

You like to say "just the facts" a lot. The fact here is that Nutting is the owner. If Nutting eats properly, stays in good health and avoids dangerous situations, he probably will be the owner until I'm dead. Not a damned thing I can do about that. So I deal with that reality and try to second-guess what Neal does with the money he is allowed to spend (and in the case of 2014, what he didn't choose to spend).

Again, the Bucs made earlier offers to Martin. I'm betting lowball offers and Martin made up his mind he was leaving, played lights out, and got paid. They made an offer that will sit well with fans.

Where is the proof/"fact" that Neal didn't spend what he was allowed?

[sskink]

Originally Posted by erieguy

Again, the Bucs made earlier offers to Martin. I'm betting lowball offers and Martin made up his mind he was leaving, played lights out, and got paid. They made an offer that will sit well with fans.

Where is the proof/"fact" that Neal didn't spend what he was allowed?

Here's a link.
Column: Huntington says 'it's all on me' - DK on Pittsburgh Sports DK on Pittsburgh Sports

But in case you don't pay-to-play for DK's site, here's the relevant passage with the numbers bolded:

“I want to be clear here: The reason we didn’t bring in more was my fault,” he said, enunciating those two words more than mere italics can illustrate. “I don’t want to make it seem like we had limitations. I made really hard decisions because I thought they were the right thing for the long term for this organization. That’s my job as a steward of this organization. My job is to put the major-league team in position to play meaningful games into September and the playoffs, as well as giving ourselves as many chances as we can have going forward. Some of the decisions I’ve made were reflective of that. As much as I would love to push all our chips onto the table every single year, we wouldn’t have many opportunities to do that if we did that.”

I asked what any GM would have to gain from leaving unspent money in the payroll, this being the issue that seems to perplex most. I don’t have the exact dollar figure, but my independent information is that it’s about $8 million or $9 million.

“It stays in baseball operations, and it allows us to do different things in the future,” Huntington replied. “We did have the ability to do things this year. Again, I’m not shy. If there’s venom to be had after this season, it’s on me. Our major-league team certainly doesn’t deserve any of it. Our ownership and Frank were completely supportive. I’m hoping that there won’t be venom to be spilled, but if there is, it should come my way. And I’ll understand that.”

FWIW, with the final payroll at $81.4 after all the incentive clauses are paid out, that extra $8-9 mill would've put the Pirates right around $90 mill. I'm going to assume (well, at least hope) that something right around that mark is the starting point for the operating payroll budget for 2015.