Wilkinsburg most violent district: Commonwealth Foundation (Pittsburgh, Penn Hills: fit in, school district, pros and cons)

[squarian]

Originally Posted by Hopes

From what I understand, Woodland Hills does this, except without literally removing students. A friend lives in that school district. She is confident of her children's success in the district because she says the district keeps the children segregated according to academic performance.

Are her children in high or middle school? At the elementary level, WH is already segregated to a degree by the elementaries' feeder patterns, Edgewood drawing from the upper-middle class parts of Edgewood and Swissvale. But at the high level, WH certainly isn't the only school to stream by academic ability, thereby effectively segregating by class and race: I informed that Allderdice, for instance, in the near past had several academic streams, some apparently physically separated from the rest of the school population.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by squarian

Woodland Hills has now followed Wilkinsburg. The decisions are very nearly parallel: a small millage hike (0.56 vs. 1.67), staff furlough (10 vs. 47), and the closure of a major program component (Boyce Campus Middle College program vs. Johnson Elementary).



And perhaps that would be for the best.

Woodland Hills is horrifically mismanaged for sure, but unlike a lot of Allegheny County school districts, it serves a fairly sizeable population. What would be the solution? Breaking it up and dividing it between Penn Hills, Pittsburgh, and East Allegheny?

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by squarian

Are her children in high or middle school? At the elementary level, WH is already segregated to a degree by the elementaries' feeder patterns, Edgewood drawing from the upper-middle class parts of Edgewood and Swissvale. But at the high level, WH certainly isn't the only school to stream by academic ability, thereby effectively segregating by class and race: I informed that Allderdice, for instance, in the near past had several academic streams, some apparently physically separated from the rest of the school population.

Tracking may not be ideal, but it's the only thing keeping the high school functional.

[duane_28]

As a former resident of Duquesne, I'm torn because I see both sides of this issue. I grew up poor and attended one of the worst school districts in the state of Pennsylvania. When I was a student at Duquesne High School, I would have wanted the opportunity to attend a better public school in West Mifflin or even McKeesport.

However, now that I live in a more affluent neighborhood in the South Hills, I would be dismayed to see students from Wilkinsburg attending Keystone Oaks or the Mt. Lebanon school districts for example, as part of a merger.

I feel bad for the kids who really want to learn, but I also know from my experiences that teachers in schools such as Wilkinsburg spend far too much time on discipline and not enough time on instruction. To put it simply, a few bad kids can easily ruin the learning experience for everyone around them. Just ask any teacher who works in a financially-distressed school district.

Does anyone remember the recent story about a student at Wilkinsburg High School who punched a teacher in the face?
Student strikes Wilkinsburg High School teacher in the face - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

I want the best for my future children and will do everything in my power to send them to the best school district that we can afford.

[stburr91]

Originally Posted by squarian

Woodland Hills has now followed Wilkinsburg. The decisions are very nearly parallel: a small millage hike (0.56 vs. 1.67), staff furlough (10 vs. 47), and the closure of a major program component (Boyce Campus Middle College program vs. Johnson Elementary).

And perhaps that would be for the best.

I'm not sure I see the district going away next year, but let's hope so, I'd love to see my property values go up. I think Woodland Hills will be around next year, they'll just have to make the cuts they should've made this year, and raise taxes... again.

Originally Posted by duane_28

As a former resident of Duquesne, I'm torn because I see both sides of this issue. I grew up poor and attended one of the worst school districts in the state of Pennsylvania. When I was a student at Duquesne High School, I would have wanted the opportunity to attend a better public school in West Mifflin or even McKeesport.

However, now that I live in a more affluent neighborhood in the South Hills, I would be dismayed to see students from Wilkinsburg attending Keystone Oaks or the Mt. Lebanon school districts for example, as part of a merger.

I feel bad for the kids who really want to learn, but I also know from my experiences that teachers in schools such as Wilkinsburg spend far too much time on discipline and not enough time on instruction. To put it simply, a few bad kids can easily ruin the learning experience for everyone around them. Just ask any teacher who works in a financially-distressed school district.

Does anyone remember the recent story about a student at Wilkinsburg High School who punched a teacher in the face?
Student strikes Wilkinsburg High School teacher in the face - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

I want the best for my future children and will do everything in my power to send them to the best school district that we can afford.

You're absolutely right. As someone who knows what has gone on in Wilkinsburg schools, I know that even a very small number of these kids could be very disruptive to other schools.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by stburr91

You're absolutely right. As someone who knows what has gone on in Wilkinsburg schools, I know that even a very small number of these kids could be very disruptive to other schools.

These are children, not lepers, and they deserve the opportunity to succeed no less so than you or I. But I definitely agree that a large influx of such kids would not be easy for historically whiter, more affluent school districts to handle. Instead of throwing up our hands and declaring the problem unsolvable though, I think if we divided the dead and dying school districts into small enough parts, we could give children from the area's Wilkinsburgs, Duquesnes, and Clairtons, a proper chance at education without overwhelming/destroying the positive status quo at the Mt. Lebanons, Pine-Richlands, and Upper St. Clairs.

[BrianTH]

The research in this field implies that scattering around disadvantaged students so they are not disproportionately concentrated in any one school will get you a lower total number of disciplinary problems and the better overall test scores. Accordingly, you would minimize disciplinary problems and maximize measurable educational outcomes if every school in the region had approximately the same share of disadvantaged students, roughly equal to the overall share of disadvantaged students in the region.

If you accept that as your baseline, then leaving some disadvantaged students in schools with more than their proportionate share of disadvantaged students so that some advantaged students can be in schools with less than their proportionate share of disadvantaged students is basically asking those disadvantaged students to accept much worse outcomes not for the greater good of all, but rather for the greater good of just those advantaged students.

That's the cold reality of this situation, and the fact we aren't working toward a solution is not to our credit.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

The research in this field implies that scattering around disadvantaged students so they are not disproportionately concentrated in any one school will get you a lower total number of disciplinary problems and the better overall test scores. Accordingly, you would minimize disciplinary problems and maximize measurable educational outcomes if every school had approximately the same share of disadvantaged students.

If you accept that as your baseline, then leaving some disadvantaged students in schools with more than their proportionate share of disadvantaged students so that some advantaged students can be in schools with less than their proportionate share of disadvantaged students is basically asking those disadvantaged students to accept much worse outcomes not for the greater good of all, but rather for the greater good of just those advantaged students.

That's the cold reality of this situation, and the fact we aren't working toward such a solution is not to our credit.

If you overwhelm the system, causing the advantaged students' parents to get scared and pull their kids out of the public schools, or even move away entirely, then everybody loses. Remember, this is Pennsylvania we're talking about, where change of any kind does not come about very easily. If we start with the "worst offenders" and get good results, then we can more broadly level the playing field down the line.

[stburr91]

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

These are children, not lepers, and they deserve the opportunity to succeed no less so than you or I. But I definitely agree that a large influx of such kids would not be easy for historically whiter, more affluent school districts to handle. Instead of throwing up our hands and declaring the problem unsolvable though, I think if we divided the dead and dying school districts into small enough parts, we could give children from the area's Wilkinsburgs, Duquesnes, and Clairtons, a proper chance at education without overwhelming/destroying the positive status quo at the Mt. Lebanons, Pine-Richlands, and Upper St. Clairs.

I didn't make any comments on whether the problem is solvable or not. I was just commenting that I know for a fact, that it only takes one or two kids to be so disruptive to a class, that the learning process is compromised. The problem is, that Wilkinsburg has many such disruptive kids.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by stburr91

I didn't make any comments on whether the problem is solvable or not. I was just commenting that I know for a fact, that it only takes one or two kids to be so disruptive to a class, that the learning process is compromised. The problem is, that Wilkinsburg has many such disruptive kids.

I agree it's a tricky situation, and no matter what happens, people will have to make some adjustments. But with proper planning and execution, there's no reason people cannot acclimate to such adjustments.