Important article about new voter ID law (York: health insurance, buying)

[greg42]

Originally Posted by julian17033

I'm a moderate democrat and I cannot fathom as to why someone who would care enough to actually vote would not have a valid photo ID.

This is a problem. Many people who are fortunate in their lives have a hard time conceiving of the idea that people live in situations where all of the IDs noted in the law would be unnecessary and just an extra cost that they can't afford. And this would have no bearing in many cases on whether they care enough to vote.

Note that fortunate doesn't mean wealthy. Many people who are in fact fortunate do not realize how fortunate they are....

[quaymorris]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Just one more point - this isn't a general politics forum, and I don't want to belabor this.

These sort of laws not only target those with no ID, but those with no valid ID. By far the most common way this happens is if people move without getting an ID with a new address quickly. I know when I was in my 20s I would sometimes wait years to switch my ID to a new address, although I would register to vote locally. Renters are the people hurt by these requirements, as they move around most frequently, meaning the young and poor.

That would be me! My ID is very much out of date address wise. It has the address of a place I stayed in in college. I've moved every year for the past 6 going on 7 years, as I will be moving again. Call me lazy or disconnected or whatever, but I'm not going to change it every time I move.

Originally Posted by eschaton

The question is more one of civil rights to me - I don't see why the government should do anything to make voting harder. Everyone, even a crazy homeless person, has a right to vote.

I know that there is no constitutional amendment concerning the right to vote. The only thing in the constitution on voting is just on not discriminating. States are allowed to make their own judgment calls on these things.

[BrianTH]

BTW, I'm always amazed that anyone discounts even minor voter fraud.

Again I don't want to get bogged down discussing the merits of this law, so I will just briefly note that speaking just for myself, to the extent people really are trying to affect the outcome of an election with illegal behavior, I think that is worth taking seriously even if their efforts prove ineffective. But of course once you have identified such a problem, any proposed solution would have to be evaluated in terms of costs and benefits, and in particular a proposed "solution" that doesn't even address the identifiable problems isn't really an example of taking those problems seriously.

Again, this particular kind of law doesn't address the sorts of illegal behavior that people actually try to use to affect elections. So there just aren't any cognizable benefits to these laws, just costs, and in that sense they really don't count as a serious attempt to deal with the actual illegal electoral behavior as it exists in the world.

In any event, the bottomline is that if your concern is people impersonating other people at the polls, then people who intend to vote as themselves aren't part of that concern. Accordingly, we should have no problem informing every such person possible of the new law, and making sure they have every opportunity to get the necessary ID.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by quaymorris

I know that there is no constitutional amendment concerning the right to vote. The only thing in the constitution on voting is just on not discriminating. States are allowed to make their own judgment calls on these things.

Sort of, but the courts may step in when a voting restriction is found to be unjustifiably discriminatory, even if the state cites other purposes, under the authority of the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment. The most famous example is poll taxes, which were used to disenfranchise poor black people during the Jim Crow era. The Supreme Court struck them down in 1966.

The constitutional question, then, is whether these voter ID laws are the equivalent of poll taxes. Of course the states argue that they have a valid interest in preventing electoral fraud, but the counterargument is that in light of the fact that the relevant form of fraud essentially doesn't exist, this argument appears to be merely a pretext (in the same way the revenue function of poll taxes was deemed pretextual).

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by quaymorris

That would be me! My ID is very much out of date address wise. It has the address of a place I stayed in in college. I've moved every year for the past 6 going on 7 years, as I will be moving again. Call me lazy or disconnected or whatever, but I'm not going to change it every time I move.

I was the same way when I rented. I kept my voter registration at my parent's address and voted at the polling station for their address, even coming back into town to vote when I lived elsewhere. It would probably be best to change your address to your parent's house so you can request an absentee ballot if you don't feel like driving back to your college town to vote because you won't be able to get an absentee ballot if you can't pick up the mail from the address your registered under. Of course, this is all irrelevant if you don't care to vote.

[quaymorris]

Originally Posted by Hopes

I was the same way when I rented. I kept my voter registration at my parent's address and voted at the polling station for their address, even coming back into town to vote when I lived elsewhere. It would probably be best to change your address to your parent's house so you can request an absentee ballot if you don't feel like driving back to your college town to vote because you won't be able to get an absentee ballot if you can't pick up the mail from the address your registered under. Of course, this is all irrelevant if you don't care to vote.

No, I need to do something because driving back to Florida to vote won't work lol. My problem is I should have changed it back to my parents' address before I moved because I don't want to get a PA drivers license as I will probably be moving back to Florida in a year (whew, mouthful). I just was not thinking of that when I first moved. Voting in the next election was the last thing on my mind when I was packing up an apartment hehe.

[UKyank]

They handed out an information sheet on this when you voted in the primary this year.

And no, I do not believe many people can function in modern society without proper ID - unless someone is paying you in cash or you have hordes of cash stashed, how do you deposit or withdraw money to live?

Purging of voter rolls must be lax here too as my friend who is registered in VA & voted in the primary there also got a ballot from PA in the mail.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by UKyank

how do you deposit or withdraw money to live?

If you have an ATM card you don't necessarily need other forms of ID for deposits and withdrawals from a checking account. Credit cards also can be used for payment without ID in many circumstances, and in turn they will accept balance payments by check without ID. In general, you can use mailed-in checks without ID to pay bills (they just wait until it clears to credit your account). There are also many contexts in which people will accept forms of ID not covered in the new law. And so forth.

[quaymorris]

Originally Posted by UKyank

And no, I do not believe many people can function in modern society without proper ID - unless someone is paying you in cash or you have hordes of cash stashed, how do you deposit or withdraw money to live?

I don't know ... I never needed ID to deposit at my credit union and I can't remember the last time I've withdrawn money. Or actually made a deposit in person. Maybe I'm an extreme?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by quaymorris

Maybe I'm an extreme?

I'm trying to remember when I have recently had to use my driver's license as proof of ID. The only thing I can come up with is buying a bunch of gift cards.