City elders pls take note: 3%wage/school tax? $24.72/$1k prop tax? (Pittsburgh: sales, 2013)

[charles1169]

My wife was looking at a job in Pitt but we are going to have to pass based on the absurd taxes in the city. What a pity. I visited Pitt years ago and based on my pleasant memories she decided to apply for jobs in the city. But we cannot pull the trigger based on those tax numbers. I am not trying to bash Pitt at all, just expressing my dismay at the exorbitant take rate of $24.72 per $1000 on property and the clincher - 3% wage/school tax? That is a total deal breaker for me esp with income taxes probably set to skyrocket over the next 20 years imho.
I am sad that we won't be moving to Pitt - is there any chance of these being lowered or eliminated anytime soon?

[Garvdog]

Where are you moving from? Local taxes are probably the most expensive thing about Pittsburgh, everything else is cheap compared to most other cities.

Also, I think you don't know the whole story when it comes to taxes.

First, the numbers you quoted are only if you live in the city limits. Most suburbs have a 1.5% wage tax, and property taxes differ greatly depending on what exact municipality you live in. If you have to pony up for those kind of property taxes, and have kids, you might as well locate youself in a great school district- there are quite a few but the city school district is not one of them.Remember you don't have to live IN the city. Pittsburgh is small, it's not like you would have to drive 60 minutes to get downtown.

Second , for property taxes you must take into account the assessed value of the house, not just the rates. Currently homes here are still assessed based on 2002 book values.

[charles1169]

Originally Posted by Garvdog

Where are you moving from? Local taxes are probably the most expensive thing about Pittsburgh, everything else is cheap compared to most other cities. And remember, you only pay those taxes if you live in the city limits. Most suburbs have a 1.5% wage tax, and property taxes differ greatly depending on what exact municipality you live in. And if you have to pony up for those kind of property taxes, and have kids, you might as well locate youself in a great school district- there are quite a few but the city school district is not one of them.

Remember you don't have to live IN the city. Pittsburgh is small, it's not like you would have to drive 60 minutes to get downtown. If taxes are your only reason I would think again.

Those are all good points. We are currently in Dallas - no state tax, no wage tax, and modest prop taxes though higher than when we were in NC. I have a moral problem with paying a wage tax bc unlike sales taxes I don't have a choice in the matter.
We like living 'in' cities but as we think about expanding our family your points are good ones. As I said I really enjoyed visiting the city. I would love to find a fixer and really add value to the city fixing the place up. But it doesnt look like that will happen, thanks for sharing.

[Tirade]

This is completely and utterly petty of me, but I can't take anyone who is too lazy to write out "Pittsburgh" seriously. Is adding the "--sburgh" really that arduous?

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by Walkerstudios

Those are all good points. We are currently in Dallas - no state tax, no wage tax, and modest prop taxes though higher than when we were in NC. I have a moral problem with paying a wage tax bc unlike sales taxes I don't have a choice in the matter.
We like living 'in' cities but as we think about expanding our family your points are good ones. As I said I really enjoyed visiting the city. I would love to find a fixer and really add value to the city fixing the place up. But it doesnt look like that will happen, thanks for sharing.

Taxes do seem high at first glance, but when you look up the assessed values here you'll see that many properties are assessed lower than actual value, and also are generally cheaper in general when compared to the rest of the country. It is true that assessments are going to reset for the 2013 tax year, but millages will also be adjusted accordingly (the exact number has not yet been determined). Have you taken a look at home listings to see if your dollar would stretch farther than it does in Dallas? It may or may not, depending on what types of homes and what types of areas you are looking for (for example, modern homes in walkable areas command a steep price, while historic homes are plentiful - especially compared to Dallas).

As for the morality of income taxes, not accepting those will instantly write off *a lot* of the country for you (probably a large majority of the country, really). I find them more moral than property taxes, at least they are taxing money you actually have. With property taxes, they are billing you with no guarantee that you have the funds. It also applies equally to everybody, rather than only indirectly affecting renters.

[FreightTrainRunning]

Originally Posted by Walkerstudios

Those are all good points. We are currently in Dallas - no state tax, no wage tax, and modest prop taxes though higher than when we were in NC. I have a moral problem with paying a wage tax bc unlike sales taxes I don't have a choice in the matter.
We like living 'in' cities but as we think about expanding our family your points are good ones. As I said I really enjoyed visiting the city. I would love to find a fixer and really add value to the city fixing the place up. But it doesnt look like that will happen, thanks for sharing.

I'm not sure what to tell you. The city has bills to pay and taxes are how they get paid. You don't get anything for free.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by GeneW

I'm not sure what to tell you. The city has bills to pay and taxes are how they get paid. You don't get anything for free.

Though you don't get much for the amount you pay here either.

[sparrowmint]

Originally Posted by UKyank

Though you don't get much for the amount you pay here either.

The same can be said for this entire country. My parents make $20,000 more than my husband and I do. They have zero dependents and no special deductions or exemptions whatsoever. They're basically paying full rates. They pay less in provincial + federal income taxes (+ CPP contributions) than my husband and I do in state + federal income taxes (+ FICA), and oh, they get health care covered (and the education system is better, not that they care now). Their property taxes are also lower, considering they pay $2500 vs my $2000, and their house is worth $275K and mine $50K.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Walkerstudios

Those are all good points. We are currently in Dallas - no state tax, no wage tax, and modest prop taxes though higher than when we were in NC. I have a moral problem with paying a wage tax bc unlike sales taxes I don't have a choice in the matter.
We like living 'in' cities but as we think about expanding our family your points are good ones. As I said I really enjoyed visiting the city. I would love to find a fixer and really add value to the city fixing the place up. But it doesnt look like that will happen, thanks for sharing.

you don't have a choice in the property tax either...in fact, less choice. you don't have to work, and you're income tax goes up and down with your income. your property tax is due regardless of your employment status. out of curiosity, what do you pay and for what kind of house in dallas?

[gg]

Most of the tax burden is the school's wildly high salaries and the pension problems that are only going to get worse and worse. As the pension problems keep getting worse, most all districts will in turn offer less and less to the students. The promises made to the teacher's unions are going to bite us for a very long time. In less than 10 years our educational system will really be substandard, but on the bright side the retired school teachers will be living amazingly well and they only worked 180 days a year! Good for them, but very bad for all of us and our children. Big mistakes were made. School taxes are really the only one that kills me year after year. Even though the county taxes skyrocketed, it still isn't that horrible.