Trendy Lawrenceville’s growth stays on track (real estate, neighborhoods)

[pman]

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

Obviously rising rents will continue as the area gains popularity, but when your neighbor is paying $600 dollars in rent while you're paying $1500 dollar rent in the same neighborhood things are not very "reasonable". Not to mention the well documented problem with wage suppression that has yet to be addressed by anyone.

The only reason this is the "most livable city" is because of amazingly low housing prices and rents (thus allowing the term 'Pittsburgh Rich' from making $35k a year). Lose that and we'll go from "America's Most Livable City" to "A City".

that's how it goes. to be fair, $600/mo and $1500/mo are for two entirely differently places. If the person paying $1500/mo for a new loft was instead trying to rent your apartment, that would cause rent inflation much faster than expanding supply. generally speaking, older apartments are always going to be cheaper. to the extent that it's easy to convert vacant buildings and build new structures, that will help keep rents down on existing housing stock. there are few signs that the city is anywhere near becoming expensive even if some parts of it may cease to be so affordable. cleveland is "a city" yet I think the perception of it is vastly different than boston, also "a city," neither of which is "america's most livable." I do agree that wages are low, but they will likely also rise imo. maybe pittsburgh rich becomes $50k.

[CaptainPittsburgh]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

I was looking at apartments in Central Lawrenceville a few weeks ago... every 1br I looked at was at least $1075. I'm sure you could find some pit for $500 somewhere... but attractive apartments with modern amenities in L'ville are most likely going to be at least 4 digits. And a major adaptive reuse project like Locomotive Lofts will command a premium... $1500 minimum is perfectly reasonable. There is so much pressure for new inventory in Pittsburgh's core neighborhoods, this will fill up instantly.

I don't know, my apartment in Upper Lawrenceville wasn't a pit, hahaha. It was quite nice, the landlord was great and very attentive and I highly doubt he doubled the rent since I moved last summer. I'd put money down that he's still renting it at less than $700. He also owns more than one property in the neighborhood.

Like most cities, rent can range to an almost absurd degree, though. Lots and lots of people seem to like to pay high prices for equal living spaces/conditions. None of this is to say that $1500 is unreasonable. I'm sure it will fill up right away, and that in and of itself dictates that it's definitely reasonable.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

Obviously rising rents will continue as the area gains popularity, but when your neighbor is paying $600 dollars in rent while you're paying $1500 dollar rent in the same neighborhood things are not very "reasonable". Not to mention the well documented problem with wage suppression that has yet to be addressed by anyone.

I'd hazard a guess very few people in Lawrenceville are paying $600 per month in rent or less now. Mortgages? Sure. But I've noticed that even in the "ruined rowhouses" the local population is increasingly driven out, with 20somethings taking their place.

Also, a few weeks back I was talking to a teacher in the Shaler school district. She teaches in the elementary school which is mainly Millvale and Etna. Half of her kids families lived in Lawrenceville up until a few years ago, and moved out because it was too expensive.

Lawrenceville has reached a South-Side like inflection point. Within another five years, the only working-class people will be homeowners. Upper Lawrenceville possibly excluded.

[stburr91]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

BTW: Get ready for more of those "Damn Rent Increasers" if this Huff Post article is worth anything.

Lets also not forget that there is another rent increaser coming next year, new tax assessments.

I know landlords that are facing 180% increases in their tax assessments, guess who's going to pay for that.

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

But you need to put thing into context...Your 600$ a month rent paying neighbor probably doesn't have all the amenities as you paying 1500$ plus your moving into brand new constructed so that right there is going to give you more modern amenities.

That isn't necessarily true as you can get older 2 bedroom apartments in the city with hardwood floors, balconies, and full size kitchens for under $700. They might not have a granite counter top or the latest minimalistic style but that doesn't mean they're lacking in amenities.

Not to say that these won't fill up because eventually they will. But paying that much in Lawrenceville (which is still has houses that look like they've been through a war in some areas) is a bit silly to me personally.

[stburr91]

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

That isn't necessarily true as you can get older 2 bedroom apartments in the city with hardwood floors, balconies, and full size kitchens for under $700. They might not have a granite counter top or the latest minimalistic style but that doesn't mean they're lacking in amenities.

Not to say that these won't fill up because eventually they will. But paying that much in Lawrenceville (which is still has houses that look like they've been through a war in some areas) is a bit silly to me personally.

It's really all about branding, if an area is seen as hip, people will pay more for that alone. Put new units in those kinds of areas, and they will move quickly, even at a price that some may think is high.

[CaptainPittsburgh]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Lawrenceville has reached a South-Side like inflection point. Within another five years, the only working-class people will be homeowners. Upper Lawrenceville possibly excluded.

I completely agree with this. I think Upper Lawrenceville will get there too; it'll just take a few more years.

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

That isn't necessarily true as you can get older 2 bedroom apartments in the city with hardwood floors, balconies, and full size kitchens for under $700. They might not have a granite counter top or the latest minimalistic style but that doesn't mean they're lacking in amenities

Yeah, you're right. The higher rent that places like this command have absolutely nothing to do with amenities. It's all about aesthetic, which is fine for people who desire it. Totally cool.

It's funny, I ran into this "you can't get x apartment in x neighborhood for x rent" all the time when I was in college. I very quickly came to the conclusion that most people are extremely bad at apartment hunting.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by CaptainPittsburgh

I completely agree with this. I think Upper Lawrenceville will get there too; it'll just take a few more years.

Did a quick search on Craigslist, and the sub-$1,000 rents were almost entirely in Upper Lawrenceville (and mostly in the alleys there).

I was suspicious about the appeal of Upper Lawrenceville, as I don't see homeowners ever wanting most of the houses, which are butt ugly. But if it develops into a student/post-college rental neighborhood, it can continue on its current path for quite awhile.

I do wonder when Pittsburgh is going to run out of young people willing to live in low-quality siding rowhouses though. College enrollment can't continue on its current unsustainable path forever, and I don't expect that there ever will be enough to replace the entire aging native population of Upper Lawrenceville, southern Bloomfield, and Polish Hill, just to name three most trendy places that traditional homeowner or loft-based gentrification is pretty unlikely. And this isn't even figuring that Oakland and large portions of Shadyside, Friendship, and Squirrel Hill are likely to remain student housing for the near future.

[CaptainPittsburgh]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I was suspicious about the appeal of Upper Lawrenceville, as I don't see homeowners ever wanting most of the houses, which are butt ugly.

Hahaha, I think it's going to happen. I've posted on here a few times that I saw a younger folks buying houses in Upper Lawrenceville when I lived there. Recently, one of my friends (another younger person) just bought a place up there as well.

I would have done the same if I didn't find the house I was looking for elsewhere. Granted, I think the market will look a bit different from a few blocks up the street in Central, but I still think Upper is going to do really well. Honestly, I think the disparity between housing costs in Central and Upper is an asset for Upper. It's the reason that my friend bought in Upper, and I would hazard a guess that it's why the other young folks I saw buy there did too.

Central and Lower are also so small that I imagine the market will get pretty tight pretty quick. It kind of arguably already is, and that leaves Upper as a very attractive option for younger folks looking to buy a first home in a great neighborhood.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by CaptainPittsburgh

Hahaha, I think it's going to happen. I've posted on here a few times that I saw a younger folks buying houses in Upper Lawrenceville when I lived there. Recently, one of my friends (another younger person) just bought a place up there as well.

That just boggles my mind. When I bought in 2007, I was specifically looking for.

1. A brick, not siding house.
2. A house which retained the original window sizes.

I managed to find one for just over $50,000. Sure, I'm in an uber-narrow rowhouse (my house isn't even 12 feet wide), but I really can't complain on the whole, as once the attic was turned back into a finished space again it was plenty roomy for my wife and I (around 1,260 square feet. Wish there was some way to stick a second bathroom in though.

Someday, I'll have to do something about my concrete backyard too.

Originally Posted by CaptainPittsburgh

Central and Lower are also so small that I imagine the market will get pretty tight pretty quick. It kind of arguably already is, and that leaves Upper as a very attractive option for younger folks looking to buy a first home in a great neighborhood.

Central and Lower are not small! In 2010, Central Lawrenceville had around 4,500 people, Upper 2,700 and Lower 2,300. So Central is significantly bigger, and Lower is only a bit smaller.

I tend to divide both Central and Lower Lawrenceville into two neighborhoods though. I live in the "Central Flats," which I think is pretty distinct from the slope. In Lower Lawrenceville, I think the slope is well fairly connected to the few random blocks of houses toward the river on the flats. However, the area between Penn and Liberty is this weird, isolated pocket I don't think feels much like Lawrenceville - more an extension of Bloomfield.