PINE RICHLAND RESIDENTS...increase in school taxes/teacher contract negotiations....are you concerned? (Washington: public school, wages)

[gg]

Originally Posted by Retiredcoach

Since passage of the budget, a million dollar stop light was added, additional administrators were hired, and school administrators were given a salary and benefit windfall. Wanna bet that the school board will be approving another significant tax increase (unless southeast lady/ taxpayer cpr is heard) in June 2013?

Yes, but it can't be stopped. It is funded from taxes and everything funded from taxes is abused. From top to bottom. What we are going to end up seeing are major classroom issues. Too many kids in a class, cut subjects and a host of other issues. You can't get money out of a rock and there are breaking points. I think most have reached them and there is going to be a massive price to pay. Not in more money, but in future kid's education. It is kind of normal though. People hate thinking about the next group coming along. Look at our debt style of life. Pass it on and pass it on more. Sure is a sad situation, but most could care less today. Oh wait in about 5 years. Then people will be saying, "what happened?"

[Lobick]

Originally Posted by Velvet Jones

To be fair, H has said that he will likely have to sell his house if new assessments comes through and the millage is not significantly reduced. So I can see why he would be extremely sensitive to this issue. My taxes are now over $1050 a month. I'm also seriously considered putting my house on the market. How much do you pay?

Well, I'm a property owner living in the City so according to all those suburbanites who fled its limits to avoid its "oppressive" levels of taxation I guess I pay my "fair share", whatever that means.

Look, I'm sure being house poor sucks and not having the cash flow to support the tax burden is a problem. But it's a first world problem, tax rates were known or should have been known by any open-eyed buyer and the marginal increases in tax rates enacted by democratically elected school boards are what they are. If the benefits derived from living in a particular location no longer exceed the costs associated with living there, you should sell. It is a market based system.

[gg]

Originally Posted by Lobick

Look, I'm sure being house poor sucks and not having the cash flow to support the tax burden is a problem. But it's a first world problem, tax rates were known or should have been known by any open-eyed buyer and the marginal increases in tax rates enacted by democratically elected school boards are what they are. If the benefits derived from living in a particular location no longer exceed the costs associated with living there, you should sell. It is a market based system.

It isn't always "house poor", it is getting what you pay for. In this case, you cannot justify the wildly high salaries. Have you looked at FC's pay scale? It is nuts! Oh, we get the best and brightest? I don't think paying on par with a place like San Francisco is needed to do that. We need better negotiators and less blank checks. Not everyone that lives in the Fox Chapel District is obesely wealthy. You have heard of Blawnox, Sharpsburg, Indiana and O'Hara, correct?

The system is broke and many will flee. Home prices will drop at some point because the assessments will be too high. Oh you are about to say, yeah but Allegheny County just did a reassessment and you might be safe if you buy at the high price right now. FC district will take you to court to welcome your arrival in your new home to hit you up for the amount you paid for your home. That was my welcome. I handled it okay, but Allegheny now reassessed me AGAIN! I live in court. Not a very nice place to live to be honest. Been in court lots of times around here for taxes. It gets old.

[Retiredcoach]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Yes, but it can't be stopped. It is funded from taxes and everything funded from taxes is abused. From top to bottom. What we are going to end up seeing are major classroom issues. Too many kids in a class, cut subjects and a host of other issues. You can't get money out of a rock and there are breaking points. I think most have reached them and there is going to be a massive price to pay. Not in more money, but in future kid's education. It is kind of normal though. People hate thinking about the next group coming along. Look at our debt style of life. Pass it on and pass it on more. Sure is a sad situation, but most could care less today. Oh wait in about 5 years. Then people will be saying, "what happened?"

I respectfully disagree.... this can be stopped. In Ohio and Wisconsin, for example, a referendum must be passed before any increase in real estate taxes. It may not happen next year, but it can be done in Pennsylvania. I believe that it will not start in the Fox Chapels, the Pine-Richlands, the Quaker Valleys, the North Allegehenys first- it will start in the Clairtons, the Sto-Rox's, the Northgates- when school taxes become the primary reason for too many losing their homes. In Pine-Richland, and any other district having past teacher contracts with "bump steps", to eliminate that provision will save millions statewide. I do not understand why a teacher is entitled to minimally a $20000 raise when they have taught for 17 (and often less years) regardless of subject area and instructional expertise. One step at a time at the local level, but make it loud enough for the legislature to hear it in Harrisburg!

[Velvet Jones]

Originally Posted by Lobick

Well, I'm a property owner living in the City so according to all those suburbanites who fled its limits to avoid its "oppressive" levels of taxation I guess I pay my "fair share", whatever that means.

Look, I'm sure being house poor sucks and not having the cash flow to support the tax burden is a problem. But it's a first world problem, tax rates were known or should have been known by any open-eyed buyer and the marginal increases in tax rates enacted by democratically elected school boards are what they are. If the benefits derived from living in a particular location no longer exceed the costs associated with living there, you should sell. It is a market based system.

Nice way of not answering the question. It's not about being house poor. It's making a wise investment. I'm not going to continue to flush money down the toilet to feed an incompetent school district. My taxes have increased $3000 in the last six years, that is unacceptable. I live right on Washington county line. If I had the same exact house 500 meters from it's current location my property taxes would be around $4000.

[gg]

Originally Posted by Retiredcoach

I respectfully disagree.... this can be stopped. In Ohio and Wisconsin, for example, a referendum must be passed before any increase in real estate taxes. It may not happen next year, but it can be done in Pennsylvania. I believe that it will not start in the Fox Chapels, the Pine-Richlands, the Quaker Valleys, the North Allegehenys first- it will start in the Clairtons, the Sto-Rox's, the Northgates- when school taxes become the primary reason for too many losing their homes. In Pine-Richland, and any other district having past teacher contracts with "bump steps", to eliminate that provision will save millions statewide. I do not understand why a teacher is entitled to minimally a $20000 raise when they have taught for 17 (and often less years) regardless of subject area and instructional expertise. One step at a time at the local level, but make it loud enough for the legislature to hear it in Harrisburg!

Thanks for your positive outlook. My plan is probably to move and take the "luck" out of it. You can pretty much move anywhere and pay less taxes than here per 100K of value. I don't mind paying more for a home up front, but it is the constant tax hikes that make it very hard to budget. I like planning years in advance where my money goes and don't like the week to week most seem to be okay with. Wish a fiscal conservative would be voted in more on every level of government, but no one wants to hear about tightening one's belt. It is all about today and how much more we can spend without regard to the future. Kind of a sick selfish society and the school unions are right in there. Every taxed based business is a joke. Just like PennDot and across the board. All the same crap.

[Lobick]

Originally Posted by Velvet Jones

Nice way of not answering the question. It's not about being house poor. It's making a wise investment. I'm not going to continue to flush money down the toilet to feed an incompetent school district. My taxes have increased $3000 in the last six years, that is unacceptable. I live right on Washington county line. If I had the same exact house 500 meters from it's current location my property taxes would be around $4000.

Well, I'm not really sure why the dollar amount of my taxes actually matters as much as the millage rates under which I live, which are published. I don't know what municipality you live in or I'd directly compare them for you. Honestly, I'm not sure how much I paid.

I get the point your making. Seems like the level of taxation really bothers you and you don't feel like you're getting what you pay for. Why do you still live there? Look, I've always thought that modern suburbia was a ponzi scheme, which is why I don't and never will live there, but there's a benefit to all of the communities being largely interchangeable...shop around.

[southeastlady]

As previously mentioned, the teacher's contribution to their retirement is 7.5%. This percentage amount fluctuates with teachers with more service contributing 6.5% and new hires paying up to 10.5%.

I use the term "contribution" loosely because their payment into the system is merely a form of a savings account. Upon retirement, each teacher receives every dollar they have invested back with an interest of 4%.

The only way to avoid this future train wreck is to grandfather the defined benefit eligibles and move to a defined contribution the way most all private industry plans are going.

Only people that can accomplish this transition if I understand the system correctly is the state legislators in Harrisburg and the 15 member Board of Trustees for the PSERS.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Velvet Jones

Nice way of not answering the question. It's not about being house poor. It's making a wise investment. I'm not going to continue to flush money down the toilet to feed an incompetent school district. My taxes have increased $3000 in the last six years, that is unacceptable. I live right on Washington county line. If I had the same exact house 500 meters from it's current location my property taxes would be around $4000.

Don't just hop across the border into Peters.

Taxes in the popular townships near the Allegheny county border will go up quickly within the next decade.

[southeastlady]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

I would love to see that graph and I agree with you, the administration should have some answers.

Thanks for posting. As always your posts are informative and you are actually involved and not an armchair quarterback. Wish more people were as involved. Keep us posted. Someday people may start realizing the dire situation we are actually in. This whole thing is run just like any tax-based business. Don't worry about tomorrow, only today. More debt for all is great.

Since I am unable to actually show you the graph, I am including the stats on the other 2 local school districts which were included, North Allegheny and Hampton Township.

Spending per student - adjusted for inflation:
North Allegheny: $14,455 (ranking 2nd)
Hampton: $12,575 (ranking 4th)

Instruction as a percentage of total expenditure:
North Allegheny: 57% (ranking 3rd)
Hampton: 56% (ranking 4th)

This equates to the following as an average amongst the 5 districts of:
$13,714 of spending per student
57.6% of expenditure on instruction