Why is Point Breeze North still so (comparably) cheap? (Pittsburgh: real estate, crime rates)

[eschaton]

Although we aren't near a move yet, Point Breeze North has always intrigued me. The housing stock is mixed, but fairly good, with a mix of big old Victorians and more early 20th century construction similar to Squirrel Hill. The area has good transit connections via the Busway and the 88. The tree-lined streets are quite attractive. And we do the bulk of our food shopping at the East End Coop, so it would be very convenient for us. Finally, as a parent, I note that most of the neighborhood, with the exception of the eastern third (which is mostly industrial) goes to either Colfax or Minadeo for elementary school, and eventually goes to Allderdice.

Yet real estate prices are dirt cheap compared to the Lower East End. Few houses go on the market for over $200,000, and it's not uncommon to see houses on the market for under $100,000. This is especially surprising when you consider 3-6 bedroom houses seem to be the norm in the neighborhood.

So what gives? I'd assume it's a crime issue, but from what I have seen, crime rates are fairly moderate - higher than Point Breeze or Squirrel Hill, but similar to Regent Square, and lower than Shadyside. Is it really just people's perceptions of it as a neighborhood adjacent to Homewood?

[gg]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Is it really just people's perceptions of it as a neighborhood adjacent to Homewood?

Perception? It is adjacent to Homewood and the buffer is a set of railroad tracks, but that isn't enough of a buffer for most. The closer to Homewood the lower the price. Homewood is a very dangerous area. The company I work for gets deliveries with a semi truck and a new driver made a wrong turn and ended up in Homewood. They threw a brick at his truck and I suspect they wanted to hit him and take the goods out of the truck. The driver was very shaken up and actually said, he doesn't want to come back to Pittsburgh again and will be requesting his old routes to Philly and NYC. What a perception of Pittsburgh, but I wasn't about to argue with a guy that was that shaken. Anyway, Homewood isn't a place you want to be very often unless you really know what you are doing.

[robrobrob]

I don't follow it that closely but I think prices are higher than you think. Or maybe the pricey ones stay on the market for a bit. I just don't see many houses coming on the market for 80,000 that are liveable. Another factor to consider is that North Point Breeze is actually pretty small so there really aren't that many options. True, the houses are bigger but that means they cost more to renovate.

It seems as if most of the neighborhoods that have taken off have their own business districts and with the exception are Regent Square are more urban (South Side, Lawrenceville, Mexican War Streets. So, maybe that is a knock against North Point Breeze.

I used of live in South Point Breeze and I really didn't find the location all that great. If you were driving anywhere you had to go through either Shadyside or Squirrel Hill which is awful.

[ferraris]

i have seen some 80K and 90K homes in north point breeze; it is entirely possible that they need way more work that is apparent from pictures, but they do look decent. I think curtis is right; it has a lot to do with perception (and maybe reality?).

[BrianTH]

It is the transition zone between South Point Breeze and Homewood, and that affected things like the local income distribution, housing condition, and so on. That's a bit more than mere perception, or maybe the best way to put it is that over the long run, perception can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. I also agree it wasn't quite as well-located as South Point Breeze, although the redevelopment of East Liberty's commercial core is changing that.

So I think it is a good bet all that is turning around, but there will likely be a persistent gap with South Point Breeze for quite a while even as it improves.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Perception? It is adjacent to Homewood and the buffer is a set of railroad tracks, but that isn't enough of a buffer for most. The closer to Homewood the lower the price. Homewood is a very dangerous area.

Pittsburgh has had many cases of improving neighborhoods immediately next to seriously unsafe ones however in recent years. Shadyside and Highland Park versus East Liberty, for example, or the gentrification of much of the Northside, or just outside of the city, the Regent Square portion of Wilkinsburg.

Originally Posted by robrobrob

I used of live in South Point Breeze and I really didn't find the location all that great. If you were driving anywhere you had to go through either Shadyside or Squirrel Hill which is awful.

I don't really want to leave Lawrenceville. But if our daughter doesn't get into the magnet system when she turns 5, we're going to have to consider a move to somewhere else, probably in the Lower East End, and we honestly couldn't afford Squirrel Hill or Shadyside. My wife keeps boosting Greenfield, which has a similar price range to Point Breeze North, but it's about as unwalkable, plus the housing is generally early 20th century suburban, and ugly as hell.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Pittsburgh has had many cases of improving neighborhoods immediately next to seriously unsafe ones however in recent years. Shadyside and Highland Park versus East Liberty, for example, or the gentrification of much of the Northside, or just outside of the city, the Regent Square portion of Wilkinsburg.



I don't really want to leave Lawrenceville. But if our daughter doesn't get into the magnet system when she turns 5, we're going to have to consider a move to somewhere else, probably in the Lower East End, and we honestly couldn't afford Squirrel Hill or Shadyside. My wife keeps boosting Greenfield, which has a similar price range to Point Breeze North, but it's about as unwalkable, plus the housing is generally early 20th century suburban, and ugly as hell.

I share your opinions on Greenfield... not my thing at all. Do you have a feeder map? What about Friendship... or the pretty areas of Bloomfield (north of Friendship ave, for example)?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Do you have a feeder map? What about Friendship... or the pretty areas of Bloomfield (north of Friendship ave, for example)?

I believe this contains the new maps, and unfortunately Bloomfield/Friendship doesn't address their school issues:

http://www.pps.k12.pa.us/14311051817...v7_Bus_Fin.pdf

[robrobrob]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Pittsburgh has had many cases of improving neighborhoods immediately next to seriously unsafe ones however in recent years. Shadyside and Highland Park versus East Liberty, for example, or the gentrification of much of the Northside, or just outside of the city, the Regent Square portion of Wilkinsburg.



I don't really want to leave Lawrenceville. But if our daughter doesn't get into the magnet system when she turns 5, we're going to have to consider a move to somewhere else, probably in the Lower East End, and we honestly couldn't afford Squirrel Hill or Shadyside. My wife keeps boosting Greenfield, which has a similar price range to Point Breeze North, but it's about as unwalkable, plus the housing is generally early 20th century suburban, and ugly as hell.

Shadyside, Highland Park and Regent Square were never as bad as North Point Breeze.

I would think that Greenfield is more walkable than North Point Breeze since it does have a larger business district when considering both parts. Sure it is on hill but it is very dense.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by robrobrob

Shadyside, Highland Park and Regent Square were never as bad as North Point Breeze.

I would think that Greenfield is more walkable than North Point Breeze since it does have a larger business district when considering both parts. Sure it is on hill but it is very dense.

North Point Breeze is a tiny neighborhood and doesn't offer its own business district (it does contain the East End Co-op, however)... but it's very close to the sizable East Liberty retail cluster (Target, Trader Joe's, Bakery Square, Whole Foods, Giant Eagle, two major gyms, tons of dining, etc)... and is rather close to business districts in Shadyside, along Penn heading into Wilkinsburg, Regent Square, the tiny district on Reynolds St, etc.

Adding to North Point Breeze's superior walkability is its gentle topography and attractive tree-lined streets. It's a great biking locale as well.