Strip Parking (Pittsburgh, Reading, Penn: living, fences, marketplace)

[pman]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I routinely take my daughter on the bus during off seasons (she rides on the bike with me now). She loves the bus - possibly more than the bike, and certainly more than being in a car. When she was younger, it was a pain picking her up from day care and going on the bus, as it meant I had two bags and a huge carrier, but now I can usually stuff her bag into my bag and she's old enough to just hold her hand. On super-crowded days it can be an issue though, as often no one gives us a seat.

As to my wife, I'm not sure. She actually works in the Strip District, so she's even closer to work than I am (and also deals with huge parking issues every day). The only time she ever took the bus was when she took her car in for service, and it took my repeated insistence that made the most sense to do it. Even then, she didn't take the Busway, despite my mention it was very quick, as

The funny thing is, she actually hates driving, and says all the time she hopes we could move somewhere where she could drive less. I think it pretty much is anti-bus stigma, as she loves going on the subway/train when we're places like NYC, Chicago, or Toronto.

fwiw, the buses I've ridden to and from the strip (mainly the 86) were never crowded (though sometimes the 91 looks crowded though). I find it expensive though. I'd think that the local buses would be just as good for most trips to the strip from lawrenceville. I like the basic route structure with a trunk line through the strip, this guy has some interesting takes on frequency
Pittsburgh Transit Guide

those routes, imo, make among the most sense for street running trolley restoration imo.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

This is a very real concern. Unfortunately, there's a lot of creepy people riding PAT buses... and it's even more uncomfortable when it's peak... and you have to be smashed up against some smelly drunk or trashy loudmouth on a cell phone. This really gives public transportation, particularly buses, a bad stigma.

I don't know the details, but I know during most of her bus-commuting period, she lived in Carrick. While it was different then than it is now, I know she didn't enjoy it much regardless.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

The Strip District is very overrated by most folks. There is a wonderful, vibrant and unique marketplace district along Penn between 17th and 22nd... but that's about it. Most of the neighborhood is a wasteland of parking lots, soul-crushing Buncher developments, tow pounds, chain link fences and barbed wire, blank warehouses and dusty alleyways devoid of human life.

Your description is largely accurate (although I would also take note of a few more things, like the existent residential/loft projects and the Heinz History Center plus facing hotel). But I don't think there is really a contradiction here, because when the "folks" in question talk about "the Strip", they really just mean that market section.

So it isn't so much a descriptive issue, as a policy issue: some are concerned that development of the "wasteland" will undermine the market section. I think those concerns are largely misplaced, and that developing the wasteland is a very important policy goal regardless, but that's the issue.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I agree with most of your analysis, but I don't think there has to be a tradeoff between residential and retail (aside from with respect to relatively minor issues like street parking). At least for now, you can keep packing more residential into undeveloped lots, vacant industrial properties, upper-floors, and so on, without taking anything away from the retail aspects of the Strip.

I was painting an extreme example in order to showcase that in even that case, the tradeoff would be worth it for the city, at least financially.

Currently the Strip's commercial district basically caters to 85% commuters (probably mostly suburbanites on the weekends), 10% people who work there during the day, and 5% (if that) to the new Strip residents. I think in the longer run it's going to have to shift to being a bit more like East Carson, Walnut, Forbes/Murray, Butler, or the other successful city business districts, where half the business is probably generated by local residents, with people from nearby city neighborhoods taking public transit or short-distance drives comprising most of the remainder. Just as many sales, but spread throughout the week, and requiring a lot less parking.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

What I would particularly like to see is efforts to bring these elements together in the form of public spaces where shopping, snacking, dining, lingering, and people-watching can all be done. This is a repeat of something I posted in another forum, but here is a visual pitch for a piazza in front of St Stanislaus, based on something in a very similar space we saw in Verona (Piazza delle Erbe):
...
You'd have to give up some street parking, but otherwise with projects like this you could really bring together some cool elements for residents, workers, shoppers, and assorted other visitors.

I've mentioned to my wife that I find it a shame that the Strip District isn't just one road wider. it would be really nice to have a more intimate "neighborhood-feeling" street which rowhouses and local businesses could congregate on. Instead all four of the main streets are either virtual highways or choked with trucks, and the two main alleys are neither inviting nor continuous.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I don't know the details, but I know during most of her bus-commuting period, she lived in Carrick. While it was different then than it is now, I know she didn't enjoy it much regardless.

I'm riding the Carrick bus right now (I temporarily live in South Side Slopes).

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Your description is largely accurate (although I would also take note of a few more things, like the existent residential/loft projects and the Heinz History Center plus facing hotel). But I don't think there is really a contradiction here, because when the "folks" in question talk about "the Strip", they really just mean that market section.

So it isn't so much a descriptive issue, as a policy issue: some are concerned that development of the "wasteland" will undermine the market section. I think those concerns are largely misplaced, and that developing the wasteland is a very important policy goal regardless, but that's the issue.

Exactly. There's a ton of potential in the Strip... yet it seems some entrenched interests would rather have it status quo.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I was painting an extreme example in order to showcase that in even that case, the tradeoff would be worth it for the city, at least financially.

Currently the Strip's commercial district basically caters to 85% commuters (probably mostly suburbanites on the weekends), 10% people who work there during the day, and 5% (if that) to the new Strip residents. I think in the longer run it's going to have to shift to being a bit more like East Carson, Walnut, Forbes/Murray, Butler, or the other successful city business districts, where half the business is probably generated by local residents, with people from nearby city neighborhoods taking public transit or short-distance drives comprising most of the remainder. Just as many sales, but spread throughout the week, and requiring a lot less parking.



I've mentioned to my wife that I find it a shame that the Strip District isn't just one road wider. it would be really nice to have a more intimate "neighborhood-feeling" street which rowhouses and local businesses could congregate on. Instead all four of the main streets are either virtual highways or choked with trucks, and the two main alleys are neither inviting nor continuous.

The Strip is largely a "feast or famine" business district... and can feel quite desolate during the week. I agree that it would really benefit the neighborhood if it could evolve into a more consistent retail environment.

And yes... it would be nice if the Strip was one road wider... of course... one of the key roads, Liberty, functions as an "automobile sewer"... if it was more of an "urban boulevard" perhaps it would really help establish your vision.

[pman]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I don't know the details, but I know during most of her bus-commuting period, she lived in Carrick. While it was different then than it is now, I know she didn't enjoy it much regardless.

I'd venture to say Carrick is a whole different animal than lawrenceville which is a pretty short ride (as I'm sure you know). 10 min vs 40 maybe?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I think in the longer run it's going to have to shift to being a bit more like East Carson, Walnut, Forbes/Murray, Butler, or the other successful city business districts, where half the business is probably generated by local residents, with people from nearby city neighborhoods taking public transit or short-distance drives comprising most of the remainder. Just as many sales, but spread throughout the week, and requiring a lot less parking.

I again think you can do both--layer the sort of more local retail market you are describing on top of (or next to, etc.) the existing regional retail market. Parking for the regional market will just need to shift to multi-level structures (or to nearby areas with good transit links).

I've mentioned to my wife that I find it a shame that the Strip District isn't just one road wider. it would be really nice to have a more intimate "neighborhood-feeling" street which rowhouses and local businesses could congregate on. Instead all four of the main streets are either virtual highways or choked with trucks, and the two main alleys are neither inviting nor continuous.

Developing the area along the river gives you some opportunities, and in general there is an ongoing planning process which includes looking at how to create some better pedestrian experiences.

[Evergrey]

Great points, BrianTH. Riverfront development will "widen" the neighborhood considerably... I suppose I have an issue with Buncher's proposal because it places parking lots along the river inside of its U-shaped buildings. I would like to see a parking solution that is less land-intensive.