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The parallels I've drawn are meant to show that no minority group achieved social equality WITHOUT the valiant actions of those who refused to be silenced and refused to idle as those around them were egregiously denied the same benefits afforded to "mainstream America".
I'm not specifically trying to imply that the "I Have a Dream" speech is equivocal with kissing in front of Chick-Fil-A. AlleghenyAngel is certainly welcome to correct me if I'm mistaken, but the LGBT community simply hasn't had the pleasure of having such a gifted, noble, and powerful figurehead ascend to the top of our own Civil Rights Movement.
Really the most outspoken among the LGBT have done a terrible job at advancing their cause. A kiss-in does nothing but push back support for them among the average person. No one wants to see 2 people making out at a fast food restuarant regardless of their sex, and if that is the gay communities answer to disagreeing with a restuarant owner they will continue to see gay marriage propositions struck down.
Likewise I've seen enough actions at pride parades that are very graphic public displays of sexual activity that likewise will turn off the majority.
There are too many gay individuals that are focused on the sex part of their sexuality and flaunting that publically and in turn very much hurt their cause. The LGBT community should ostracize these individuals to a certain extent to get these publicity hounds out of the spotlight and try to showcase gay couples that are otherwise leading a normal family life.
I'm fine with gay marriage, but the majority of people are not and every negative stereotype they have is enforced everytime they see these very public, very sexually focused activities. You need to win over the majority of people with normalcy before you can expect to see equality.
The parallels I've drawn are meant to show that no minority group achieved social equality WITHOUT the valiant actions of those who refused to be silenced and refused to idle as those around them were egregiously denied the same benefits afforded to "mainstream America".
Just to be clear, you are equating vandalism and harassing the employees of a chicken sandwich restaurant over the CEO's political opinion on gay marriage to the noble efforts of Martin Luther King, Jr. during the Civil Rights Movement?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH
You are apparently overlooking the contributions to anti-gay groups. It is one thing to police a CEO's personal views, another to not want some of your money going to support anti-gay activities.
I have read about the WinShape Foundation that Chik-Fil-A donates money to, and there doesn't seem to be much in their activities that could be described as "hateful".
In fact, of the $8 million donated by Chik-Fil-A to WinShape last year, $7.5 million of it was directly contributed to college scholarships and foster child camps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brookline_sylvia
What 1st Amendment violations? I keep hearing this, and I don't understand what is being violated or by who. A few mayors said ill-considered statements, but their distracting grandstanding aside, what is the violation?
When an elected official pronounces a policy that he will use the power of his office to hinder a company from partaking in a legal, commercial venture because he disagrees with said company's political beliefs, it is a violation of the 1st Amendment, and the spirit of democracy in general.
I have read about the WinShape Foundation that Chik-Fil-A donates money to, and there doesn't seem to be much in their activities that could be described as "hateful".
Winshape gave about $2 million to the following groups in 2010:
Marriage & Family Foundation: $1,188,380
Fellowship Of Christian Athletes: $480,000
National Christian Foundation: $247,500
New Mexico Christian Foundation: $54,000
Exodus International: $1,000
Family Research Council: $1,000
Georgia Family Council: $2,500
What 1st Amendment violations? I keep hearing this, and I don't understand what is being violated or by who. A few mayors said ill-considered statements, but their distracting grandstanding aside, what is the violation?
When an elected official pronounces a policy that he will use the power of his office to hinder a company from partaking in a legal, commercial venture because he disagrees with said company's political beliefs, it is a violation of the 1st Amendment, and the spirit of democracy in general.
I acknowledged that much...I read many complaints about alleged violation of the 1st Amendment before those idiot mayors spouted off, so I don't consider your response to be an adequate answer.
Really the most outspoken among the LGBT have done a terrible job at advancing their cause. A kiss-in does nothing but push back support for them among the average person. No one wants to see 2 people making out at a fast food restuarant regardless of their sex, and if that is the gay communities answer to disagreeing with a restuarant owner they will continue to see gay marriage propositions struck down.
Likewise I've seen enough actions at pride parades that are very graphic public displays of sexual activity that likewise will turn off the majority.
There are too many gay individuals that are focused on the sex part of their sexuality and flaunting that publically and in turn very much hurt their cause. The LGBT community should ostracize these individuals to a certain extent to get these publicity hounds out of the spotlight and try to showcase gay couples that are otherwise leading a normal family life.
I'm fine with gay marriage, but the majority of people are not and every negative stereotype they have is enforced everytime they see these very public, very sexually focused activities. You need to win over the majority of people with normalcy before you can expect to see equality.
I agree with this for the most part, however I feel America is Puritanical when it comes to sexuality. I think when you see gays acting all slutty at Pride, remember they are also rebelling against conservative attitudes toward sexuality in general. I think it's intended to provoke and implies "we don't care what you think," when in reality I think gays do care what people think when it comes to their right to marry, hold a job, etc. I think the fight for gay rights and the rebellion against gender roles and conservative attitudes toward sex are all separate, but related, issues. Anti-gay protesters like to paint gays as promiscuous hedonists, and I think a lot of gays feel, "what's wrong with that?"
In fact, of the $8 million donated by Chik-Fil-A to WinShape last year, $7.5 million of it was directly contributed to college scholarships and foster child camps.
Correct, but that isn't fun for the media frenzy. It is much better for media to label the whole thing as "hate". It is what it is. No stopping the blind followers of the media machine. I do think Chick will make a lot of money on all of this though. There will be WAY more support for them considering that kiss in crap. Goodness the gay community is really taking a huge step in reverse. People don't want to see others making out in any restaurant no matter what sex they are.
I have read about the WinShape Foundation that Chik-Fil-A donates money to, and there doesn't seem to be much in their activities that could be described as "hateful".
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH
Winshape gave about $2 million to the following groups in 2010:
Marriage & Family Foundation: $1,188,380
Fellowship Of Christian Athletes: $480,000
National Christian Foundation: $247,500
New Mexico Christian Foundation: $54,000
Exodus International: $1,000
Family Research Council: $1,000
Georgia Family Council: $2,500
Really the most outspoken among the LGBT have done a terrible job at advancing their cause. A kiss-in does nothing but push back support for them among the average person. No one wants to see 2 people making out at a fast food restuarant regardless of their sex, and if that is the gay communities answer to disagreeing with a restuarant owner they will continue to see gay marriage propositions struck down.
Likewise I've seen enough actions at pride parades that are very graphic public displays of sexual activity that likewise will turn off the majority.
There are too many gay individuals that are focused on the sex part of their sexuality and flaunting that publically and in turn very much hurt their cause. The LGBT community should ostracize these individuals to a certain extent to get these publicity hounds out of the spotlight and try to showcase gay couples that are otherwise leading a normal family life.
I'm fine with gay marriage, but the majority of people are not and every negative stereotype they have is enforced everytime they see these very public, very sexually focused activities. You need to win over the majority of people with normalcy before you can expect to see equality.
I don't disagree with this. When I see a fellow homosexual running around in derriere-less leather chaps and nipple rings cracking a whip while wearing a pink tiara at a Pride Festival I feel nothing but contempt and disgust as I imagine just how far back they are setting our cause to achieve equality. With that being said I don't see why I need to be such an apologist for those in my own minority group in order to advance our cause as a whole. If whites aren't demanding that blacks hold themselves accountable for their ghetto counterparts in order to advance their own causes, then why should heterosexuals demand that homosexuals hold the sexual deviants within our own circle accountable prior to our own causes being advanced? Why aren't non-Muslims demanding that Muslims hold violent Islamic extremists accountable before advancing their own causes? Why should every minority group be absolved of keeping their "undesirables" in check prior to securing equality EXCEPT for homosexuals? For as annoying as the promiscuous/"Pride"-oriented gay types are at least they aren't killing anyone, unlike the other two examples I listed.
Muslims are a Federally-protected class from discrimination who currently possess equal civil rights even though a very minor subset of their believers caused the tragedies of 9/11. African-Americans are a Federally-protected class from discrimination who currently possess equal civil rights even though a very minor subset of their race are a huge drag on the potential vitality of places like Homewood, Homestead, the Hill District, Beltzhoover, etc. with their chosen violent "thug" lifestyles. Gays never chose their sexual orientation the way protected Muslim extremists chose their religion or ghetto thugs chose their lifestyle. Why, then, are we treated in such an inferior manner?
I had been reading various other threads on this particular topic, and yours seemed to be the most civil and balanced, so, by your leave, and with respect, I offer my take:
Almost 40 years ago (july of 1975 to be exact), a skinny 18-yr old black man stood in a room at the Federal Buiilding with a group of other 18 yr olds from all stripes of society, and raised his right hand to join the United States Army
I was under the impression, young though I may have been, that i was protecting and defending the rights and freedoms of ALL people in America...I wasn't separating them into neat societal pigeonholes, by race, religion, political ideology, or sexual orientation---I was a member of the UNITED STATES Army, thus I was serving ALL the people of the UNITED STATES...and NOT the United States of 'your politics/religion/lifestyle suck, so you need to be good little mushrooms and shut up'
Does Dan Cathy, the CEO of Chick-Fil-A, have the right to his beliefs, and also a bully pulpit, so to speak, from which to express them? Yes he does...and apparently, there are many who support him, and his beliefs, judging by both the pictures and soundbites from that day, and the record sales his company enjoyed that day...that is powerful, incontrovertible proof that he enjoys that support
SIDEBAR: I'm not gay...never been gay...never THOUGHT about being gay...but I DO recognize that gays and I have a commonality---we work, pay taxes, worship, buy groceries, vote, raise families, keep our lawns and yards neat, etc...
Now to the other side of the coin...one of the great things about living in America, is that if a Dan Cathy has one set of views, and those who support them, then those who oppose him and his views have frankly, just as much right to protest...thta was the way I was raised, and that should hold true across the board
Doesn't matter if the protest comes in the form of a same-sex smooch-in, or a tired woman refusing to give up a seat on a bus because some silly societal convention said she should, or people of all races and creeds marching together in unison to cry out against racism, and/or social injustice---the fact remains...there are two sides to every debate, and each should have its' day in court...it calls up one of the basic rules of physics---'for every reaction (Dan Cathy's remarks, and those who came out in support of his remarks), there is an equal and opposite reaction (those who led their own boycotts and protests in objection to Mr Cathy's stance)'
Some of you may not agree with me, but I am of the opinion that two consenting adults should have the right to be with who they wish to be with...maybe the whole tempest in a teapot is over gays wanting to call their unions 'marriages'...fine, call them civil unions, same-sex musical chairs, or what have you, but I think that they should be allowed to be together...
Because to close out, I'd like to think that's what the men and women of the armed forces are out there on the wall doing right now---supporting and defending the rights of ALL Americans, not cherry-picking and spouting 'well, you're gay, and your lifestyle is icky-poo, so go to the back of the line'...my father, my older brother, and myself, as well as several members of my family, both by blood and by marriage, wore the uniform of various branches of the service to ensure that the rights of ALL are respected, not just SOME
Muslims are a Federally-protected class from discrimination who currently possess equal civil rights even though a very minor subset of their believers caused the tragedies of 9/11. African-Americans are a Federally-protected class from discrimination who currently possess equal civil rights even though a very minor subset of their race are a huge drag on the potential vitality of places like Homewood, Homestead, the Hill District, Beltzhoover, etc. with their chosen violent "thug" lifestyles. Gays never chose their sexual orientation the way protected Muslim extremists chose their religion or ghetto thugs chose their lifestyle. Why, then, are we treated in such an inferior manner?
Muslims - because they fall under the general regious protected class which was created long before they became any real focal point of note in the US, not because they are specifically muslim
African Americans - because crime among their community wasnt rampant at the time they were fighting for civil rights.
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First of All---Hello Again Pittsburgh
